Estrangers and their 'entitled' expectations

Sara1954, interestingly, after he died my lovely friend was included (by her stepmother - the wife of her estranged father) in family invitations. She has been to several family gatherings since and is in touch with her sister, step siblings, neices and nephews.

Not everyone's the same are they MissA.

No, most definitely not.

Flower21
I think you are wrong that estrangement is a modern disease.
It happened all the time in years gone by but wasn't spoken of.

When I was a girl people just moved away and then were somehow not heard of again.
No contact was "lost contact".
A (so called) "difficult" adult child left for America or Australia or moved to the city and was never seen or heard of again.

I'm sure it was easier then to be honest - few photos, phones, not a lot of money, less travel and no social media.
No excuses needed.

Lost contact isn't the same as no contact NotSpaghetti. No contact is a conscious decision and more often than not, the one(s) being estranged/going no contact is told they're not to make contact again, even if they're not told why.

It's not about moving away or losing touch and is often preceded by abuse, control and/or manipulation.

sassysaysso

Don't do anything in anger you may regret at a time when it is too late to change anything.

But if you're dead you won't know 🤔

Exactly Smileless2012
You could go NO contact without anyone outside the Estranged Parent needing to know!

Good point Callistemon.

Death or dementia, you'd be none the wiser.

Sorry, I don't understand your response NotSpaghetti. Even if only the EP knows that is still no contact and not lost contact.

Callistemon213

sassysaysso

Don't do anything in anger you may regret at a time when it is too late to change anything.

But if you're dead you won't know 🤔

If you're dead no, but it's a different scenario when you're on your death bed and lucid.

Well no one knows what they may or may not regret when they're on their death bed do they. Someone may regret not having disinheriting the one who estranged them.

Callistemon213

sassysaysso

Don't do anything in anger you may regret at a time when it is too late to change anything.

But if you're dead you won't know 🤔

True. I doubt that there are many bodies in the morgue regretting what was in their Will.🤷‍♀️

Everyone makes choices in life. Everyone has to live with consequences of that - whatever the subject is.

My late DH cut his ACs out of his Will, for very valid reasons. It wasn’t done out of spite, he assumed they wouldn’t want him in death, as they hadn’t, in recent years, in life.

I was with him on his “death-bed”and he was content with it all. If he’d have expressed anything different to me, I would have gifted his ACs some money. He didn’t.🙂

Smileless2012 I was really saying that (unlike now) when people estranged others in the past, nobody really knew except the parties involved.
The estranged person might say something like "oh they moved to London" or "I haven't heard from them for a while" and nothing more would come of it - and most likely people wouldn't press them.

This is why I was saying that I think it's always happened. People said (privately) I want no contact from you and would burn/bin letters etc or would just not give a forwarding address.

These days it's harder to go NC as mutual friends/relatives may have phone numbers, there may be Instagram or X accounts. People know where you work.

It's easy to be stalked online too by the person you want no contact with. Neighbours and friends may happen upon the other person online in a random photo as well...

This is what I meant. You could go No Contact in the 1950s (say) and people you've estranged would be able to say "I've lost contact" much more easily.

I see, thanks NotSpaghetti. It would have been more private back in the day and I doubt there would have been counsellors and therapists recommending it as a solution as much as some appear to do today.

I still think though that it is on the increase. I had a recent conversation with a solicitor who told me more than 50% of her clients looking to make changes to wills are doing so because of estrangement.

There was a report on the news that there has been a gradual increase in the number of will contested in recent years. It was suggested that the reason could be the massive increase in the value of houses.

This seems to me to match up with the objections so many people have to having to sell property to pay for being in an old peoples care home. Why? is because the old person does not want to pay for their old persons home fees or the loss of rights to inheritance.

Apparently this is happening in the USA as well.

over 30 years ago I helped my daughter and her husband buy their house and then they cut me out of their lives. My daughter has never said a word against me to me or any of the family. I have been told that she weeps over this estrangement. Why do it then?

I have left the value of my house ( now about half a million) to an American charity that has a reputation for fighting and beating anybody who contests a will that gives them money.

Smileless2012

I see, thanks NotSpaghetti. It would have been more private back in the day and I doubt there would have been counsellors and therapists recommending it as a solution as much as some appear to do today.

I still think though that it is on the increase. I had a recent conversation with a solicitor who told me more than 50% of her clients looking to make changes to wills are doing so because of estrangement.

Is it not possible thought that the reason therapists and counselors now endorse estrangement in some cases and didn’t in the past is simply because as a society we’ve come so far in terms of understanding and treating mental health? We now recognize the damage done by simply “tolerating” toxic , manipulative and unhealthy relationships. Todays generations have rightfully learned they don’t HAVE to remain in contact with anyone who causes pain, drama, or otherwise toxic environments.

I’m quite certain that back in the day - and this is 30 years ago so no “modern “ experience my mi would have told anyone who listened that her evil dil turned her son against her when in reality her son had found her incredibly difficult to tolerate most of his life. It was just that in having a wide and children of his own to protect he was able to fully realize how off base his mum and dad were and refused to subject anyone else to them.

I estranged my ex MIL over 40 years ago. I didn’t feel the needs to discuss it with anyone other than the man I was married to, at the time.

No drama - that’s just how it was. 🤷‍♀️

I think times have changed, I wish I had estranged my mother in my early twenties, when she was most horrible to me, to be honest, at the time it never entered my head as an option, I thought it was down to me to try and repair things.
When I told my husband what I’d done, and how I never had any intention of changing my mind, he urged me to think about if she died without me ever speaking to her again, frankly, I’m fine with that.

DiamondLily

I estranged my ex MIL over 40 years ago. I didn’t feel the needs to discuss it with anyone other than the man I was married to, at the time.

No drama - that’s just how it was. 🤷‍♀️

Normal. Just a reset of the relationship.

No drama, done and dusted. No need for endless talks.

Norah

DiamondLily

I estranged my ex MIL over 40 years ago. I didn’t feel the needs to discuss it with anyone other than the man I was married to, at the time.

No drama - that’s just how it was. 🤷‍♀️

Normal. Just a reset of the relationship.

No drama, done and dusted. No need for endless talks.

No, she was impacting on my very young children. So, it was a no brainer for me.

When she died, she left me something, I don’t know what, but I told the executor to give whatever to someone else. I couldn’t have just grabbed at it.

But, she wasn’t my blood kith and kin. To estrange them would have been a whole new ball game. I didn’t, so I don’t know.🤷‍♀️

Mental health is a lot more talked about these days and I think people tolerate a lot less than they did 'back in the day' and 'because they are your family' doesn't wash now, especially with tolerating toxic behaviour which is detrimental to your mental health.

Counselling is more common too and there's less stigma attached.

DL, I believe I agreed. Easy, no drama.

No drama is the way it should be DL on both sides.

March, I think you’re right, I think we just put up with stuff, looking back at what I meekly put up with makes me quite angry now.

I'm sure that is one of the reasons Grams and it's a good one but there are cases where the relationship with the parents wasn't toxic, manipulative and unhealthy. There was an example here on this thread where once married, two lovely sons estranged their parents at the behest of their wives, because their wives didn't like their parents in law.

Your m.i.l. may have unfairly accused you of turning her son against her when that wasn't the case, but just because it wasn't doesn't mean it doesn't and can never happen to others.

It happened to us and we are not the only ones. Sometimes it is the d.i.l. or s.i.l. and a lot of unnecessary unpleasantness could be avoided on these threads if some didn't judge all those who have been estranged, based on their own experiences.

I don't judge anyone who has estranged based on our experience.

It's good that you are comfortable with the decision you've made Sara.