Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

@yogi the dartford crossing is such a rip off was supposed to have paid for itself years ago but we keep on paying, we have to use it from time to time but have an account set up for that reason.
Just one minute off the no pay window - that must have stung.
Take care xx

@allsorts, I spent most of my life being a people pleaser, is a hard habit to break.
Of course women do this more than men, a woman who puts herself first is selfish but a man who puts himself first is ambitious, driven, ‘his own man’.
Changing this mindset is difficult.
Take care 🌹

@Sparkly grandma
Hope you are feeling better now after your flu jab, not sure that watching budget would have improved your health 😂
Take care 🌹

Thank you Yogi re novels. I’ve ordered the Abanded by AC book.
I guess I am wanting to understand rather than cure the estrangement.

Allsorts thank you for saying that. Treat myself now. Even small moments of joy are good.
I’ve a packet of chocolate digestives hidden away which I will have with a milky coffee at 11am.

Whiff ☕️

Another weekend, it’s whizzing past. I missed that it was clocks changing last weekend. Have a lovely weekend ladies xx

I walked across a car park yesterday and was taken back by the most beautiful baby in his mother's arms, dressed as a pumpkin, big smile on his face, I told his mother he is the best pumpkin I have ever seen. I got in my car and thought how much I loved my own babies, we all love and want the best for them, then they grow up and some just bin us. I have a photo of my daughter dressed as a fairy in her grandmothers arms at just that age about 8/9 months.

It is that moment Allsorts when as you say something causes you to catch your breath and remember how it was. I get that too. Because we never hated our children, we loved them and still love them, that won’t change, but something turned the love they had for us to hate or indifference. I really can’t imagine my estranged daughter ever catching her breath remembering how I loved her. As far as she is concerned we are dead to her and she has said as much indeed she has said an awful lot over the years. Yet I loved her the same as my other children who still love me. So how does that work?
We can’t stop loving them but we can love and be kind to ourselves.
We will never stop missing them and our GCs.
Sending hugs 🤗

That's right Babs still paying decades after it was all paid for!
I have an account too. After lockdown I went through, knowing my account was in credit, yet got a fine for crossing without paying. Turned out they closed my account as it hadn't been used in over a year [due to lockdown], the credit on the account just sitting there!

We all get those moments Allsorts xx

Sparkly there is just no understanding these estrangements from loving Parents. Someone once said to me It's like you are speaking English and they are speaking Spanish

@yogi it really is like you are speaking a different language to your estranged AC, or as I once read in a novel by Truman Capote, not about being estranged but it fits, is like talking to each other from different rooms’.
🙄

I found yesterday hard with Halloween. Had lots of little dressed up kids coming to the house for sweets,got through 50 bags in an hour. Happy to see them and put orange balloons on the door to show that they are welcome. Brought back memories of grandchildren dressed up and the photos my daughter used to send me if we couldn't meet up. This year nothing. I'm not surprised just upset and disappointed. Constantly rethinking what I could have done to change the relationship we once enjoyed. R keeps telling me it's in her head,she has changed her memories and now sees me in a completely negative way. So sad.

Morning everyone.

That is a great book isn't it Whiff as are the other two Sharon Ann Wildey's written but the one you've recommended which was her first is IMO the best and the best one I've ever read on the subject.

So pleased the theatre trip was a success Yogin; what did you go to see? Your DS is clever, crane driving requires a lot of skill but I bet it's quite good fun too.

We never know from one day to the next if we'll have a trigger moment Allsorts. I still find it hard to see little boys, 2 or 3 years of age because they're so cute and that's when I'll momentarily think about our GS's even though the eldest was just 8 months old the last time we saw him and we've never seen his brother.

Hmmm chocolate digestives and a milky coffee Sparkly now that's what I call a treat; I hope you enjoyed it .

Looking back it's as if we were talking to each other from different worlds Babs. I can't imagine our ES catching his breath remembering how much we loved him. He spent so long and worked so hard at telling people he wasn't loved, that he probably believes it himself.

Waiting for the call to tell us the money for our house sale has been received and transferred. I hope for their sake it's not late in the day as they'll be wanting to get on with moving in. I'm glad we're all sorted here.

Popped in on Wednesday to do final meter readings and left them a 'welcome to your new home' card and a bottle of bubbles to wish them well.

It would have been 8 years on the 4th of this month that we moved in and the weather here is just like it was then, mild and sunny which makes all the difference when you're moving in to your new home.

Jaffacake2

I found yesterday hard with Halloween. Had lots of little dressed up kids coming to the house for sweets,got through 50 bags in an hour. Happy to see them and put orange balloons on the door to show that they are welcome. Brought back memories of grandchildren dressed up and the photos my daughter used to send me if we couldn't meet up. This year nothing. I'm not surprised just upset and disappointed. Constantly rethinking what I could have done to change the relationship we once enjoyed. R keeps telling me it's in her head,she has changed her memories and now sees me in a completely negative way. So sad.

Am about to order a book called ‘Abandoned Parents’ recommended by Whiff and Smiles, if I think it could useful to your case as well Jaffa will let you know.
IMHO negative reinforcement is key when AC abuse their parents or estrange them. Certainly forums on Reddit etc., catering to ACs who are estranged or just don’t get along with their parents give plenty of negative reinforcement, almost grooming ACs and encouraging them to hate their parents. Sometimes can be a DiL or SiL, or even a dodgy therapist or counsellor recommending estrangement.
Of course is still a mystery even with all things considered why a loving child would change so completely.
The thing is it isn’t your fault Jaffa. This is down to your daughter. So you can’t change it. Best to just keep on keeping on and looking after your own well-being.
Take care 🌹

@Smiles
Nice thing to do leaving a card and bottle of bubbles. Bet they are thrilled is all sorted now as well.
Always good to move into a home that is welcoming.
🌹

Jaffa it isn't you who changed the relationship with your D she did, so the only one who can change it back to how it used to be is her.

R is correct, the problem isn't you it's in her head and like so many EAC history has been re written. They don't 'remember' how things were and are, they 'remember' what suits them and there's nothing you can do about that.

Why on earth they choose to make their own lives miserable by carrying all this excess baggage they've invented for themselves is, and probably always will be a mystery, but that doesn't give them the right to make our lives miserable too and they can only do that, if we allow them too.

Well they've certainly got a good day weather wise for their move Babs. We'll be enjoying some champagne later to celebrate.

Just had confirmation that the money from the sale of our house is in our account. Mr. S. is opening the champers .

Smileless many congratulations on your house sale, good luck with the move !!

Fantastic news Smiles 👏🏽👏🏽
Have one for me 🎉🎉

Congrats mr/mrs smiles, I hope your new home brings you peace and happiness and finally your move is complete.💐🥂

Smiles and Mr S 🍾🥂 money in your account yippee. Now you can relax and really enjoy your new home . No house stress to worry about. That was lovely leaving the couple a card and bubbles. When I moved here they had left me a card ,orchid 😊and mice😱. I left a card, tea bags ,sugar and milk . And toilet roll on the holder . As those would have been my priorities. Please a list of oddies of the house and all manuals that they would need and list of trusted tradesmen. They only lived there for 3 years they had of course altered everything which was to be expected but left flooring downstairs and the old carpet .But had left my 30+ years old kitchen the same only thing they did was take up the flooring . Made me wonder if they spilt up or ran out of money .

Better read the rest of the page and then the one before.

Babs I always put others first even after my husband died. But we all have a moral code which we live by. Even though I hated my mother in law for 40 years and denied she had a son or 2 grandchildren I couldn't turn my back on her she needed me. But I didn't do it for her but my husband and children. That's why it hit me so hard as my son and daughter in law know what a bad mother ,mother in law and grandmother is. He knows how she treated us and how much she hurt his dad who still loved her but didn't like her . But never gave up on either of his parents . If they kicked off we just walked out but went back the next week. For 32 years had a kind and loving son who knew what we went through but did worse to me than my mother in law . He never knew his grandad and our daughter doesn't remember him . To both of them nan and grandad were my parents and they knew their great grandmother my nan .

SparklyGrandma sorry you weren't well after you flu jab. I just had a sore arm after mine . Covid one gave me a sore arm and my heart went crackers for half hour but it didn't stop me doing my shopping as I knew it would go back to normal well normal for my heart and it's missing heart beats. On medication so don't worry about it .

The book I mentioned is the only one I read on estrangement but everything it said made sense plus it was written by someone who is estranged from her children so knows what she is talking about and some of the people she talked to their stories where heartbreaking. It helped me . But this thread was and continues to be a life line plus got to meet lots of new friends and it's not doom and gloom like some try to make out . That's why it still survives no matter who tries to destroy it. I like to think of it as a flag ship that has weathered many storms and attacks by pirates and still sails the sea of life. Yeah I know in a flowery mood this morning 🤣🤣🤣.

Allsorts I bet you made that mom's day saying that about her son . Ours never dressed up for Halloween it just wasn't a thing by us. My daughter sent me a picture of my grandsons the eldest as a skeleton and his brother a pumpkin both looked very scary . Been a lot of houses decorated as usual but they are never gory lot of huge spiders webs with either huge spider or lots of smaller ones ,some ghosts but didn't see any witches lots of cobwebs. Just waiting for the first Christmas tree to appear people up here go all out for Christmas. Soon be time for some wag to put Santa hats on the statues but as willy warmers. Happens every year.

My daughter and son in law took the boys to the light show in the city Wednesday night . It wasn't on last year . The pictures people posted looked lovely.

Yogin so right above our estranged children talking a different language to us . They rewrite history and assumed things that never happened. My son was a shit for a year after his dad died but I understood he was grieving . My daughter used to have a go at him but he didn't change . To think I was so happy when he meet his wife as I had my happy loving boy back . But my daughter and her never got on it was hatred at first sight . But my daughter never bad mouthed her until the estrangement, unlike my daughter in law who now I see took pleasure in bad mouthing my daughter in my presence once they where married . I put up with it because I didn't see them very often and treasured the time we had together. They always behaved when we went out all together.

I loved my daughter in law as my own but she killed that love in 2020 with her Reddit posts . My love for my son will never die but I don't like what he has become . I always said he was like his dad but since 2020 he isn't as his dad would never do what he has . Love for my grandsons grows even the one I have never known. They are innocent in all this. I sometimes wonder if her mother who has lived with them for 9 years gloats about being favoured or in fear of putting a foot wrong . But the woman has no pride to be still living with them . She had money after her divorce to buy a place of her own but didn't. At least I am no burden to anyone . Yes my daughter and son in law worried about me but I live an independent life beholden to no one .

Jaffacake R is right it's not you who has changed but your daughter and there is nothing you can do to undo what she has done . And sad to say soon she will stop you seeing your grandchildren. She is using them as a weapon and that's not fair on you or them.

You have to concentrate on your own health and your daughter's soon to be operation . You will always be there for eachother . Your other daughter's behaviour is impacting not only on your health but your other daughter's as she is worrying about you and the loss of her sister. But you both need to detached yourselves from her for your healths sake . I know this sounds harsh but I know how my own health suffered from what my son has done and said and the hurt my daughter in law has caused. But last year I decided to let go of hope and feel so much better and closed that chapter on my life . I have to much good in my life and looking forward to the future. But everyone has to reach that point in their own time .

Sit fit was fun as usual on Monday but my poor arms felt it . And needed my electric heat pad on my back . We used spiky balls to massage eachothers back felt great at the time but was in pain on the way home. Just hope I didn't hurt the person in front of me.

Wednesday my daughter took me for bone scan. It was at the new hospital they build because the multi storey car park is a distance away there is a free shuttle bus for those that want it but I decided to walk both ways. But thought it was a brilliant idea. Was seen minutes after I arrived. Took 20 mins had to have both arms above my head and the radiographer put a wedge under my legs I explained I needed help but is was lovely. The wedge was taken away and had to turn my foot inwards which was difficult as I had to concentrate hard to make it stay put. Then she had to help me move as my limbs had stiffen but explained it happens. She was very kind and helpful . It was lovely chatting with my daughter just the 2 of us without little ears listening. Got her youngest on Saturday for the afternoon and we will have dinner together . Because he can roll out we will make some biscuits and use some of the many cutters I have then decorate them. He doesn't like cake but his brother likes both .

Yesterday went to see my neurologists registrar but did get to see my neurologist and have a quick chat. The registrar was lovely and said he had to read up on my HPX asked lot of questions and I had written down how it effects me took my 3 days as I can't write very well. He videoed me walking and doing some hand things like touching his finger and my nose . Sounds easy try telling my body that . He wanted me to draw a spiral oh dear you have never seen anything that looked so weird . Had to do it was my left hand and ended up as zig zags I couldn't make it spiral. He is going to organise physio for my legs especially the left . But I am happy on the dose of medication I am and said I know to get in touch when I feel it needs to go up. Was with him for 45 mins . He thanked me for learning something new. I do think it's funny I am teaching neurologists but it's thanks to my support group on Facebook my life makes sense and I can ask anything no matter how daft. And pass on information to my neurologist . Funny how the patient becomes the teacher.

When I got the bus stop only minutes to wait for the bus but meet someone who volunteers at the library and we had a long chat the day we put up our exhibition while I waited for the others to come. He has volunteered as a gardener at the hospice in the hospital grounds for 14 years . Lovely made to talk to him . His partner in hospital hopefully home before Christmas. I remembered her name from our talk in the library but forgot his. 🤦.

Wrapped up some Christmas presents Thursday and wrote out a few cards . Love deciding and buying presents hate wrapping as I shake . But the paper gets ripped anyway so doesn't really matter . Well that's my excuse. 😁.

Making lemon marmalade today so that means sitting down listening to music and reading with the occasional stirring . Better end my ramble and need to read the previous page later.

Thank you all for your words of wisdom which are written with care,concern and unfortunately personal experience of estrangement.
You are all so right on the effects this has upon health. Neurological problems are better than a few months ago but still have right leg and foot weakness which affects my balance. Like you Whiff I am seeing hospital physio next week to see if they can help. Also like you they may not have heard of my condition Chiari malformation so may quiz them first prior to treatment. Any manipulation of my spine can be dangerous in the current flare up.
Sadly I have another health problem which caused concern last evening Since menopause I am allergic to various foods and medications. This has resulted in me having anaphylaxis and ending up in resus on many occassions. R has jabbed me with adrenaline about 4 times over the last decade and has literally saved my life.
I rarely eat out and cook all my own meals rather than have ready made. Check all the labels but made a mistake last night. I am allergic to wheat and nuts so finding Tesco finest free from mince pies seemed a treat. No wheat,no nuts. However I am also allergic to wine,not anaphylaxis but unpleasant. These had brandy in them which I reacted to. Face ,neck and head started burning and within a short while had hives. Took the strong antihistamines I am prescribed then sat poised with adrenaline waiting to see if it would progress. Chatted on video phone to R in Ireland who bless him tried to reassure me but also check to see if it was deteriorating. He has my neighbours phone number who have a key and know how to stab me with adrenaline and call 999. Luckily didn't progress but had a restless night and still uncomfortable this morning.
I think it has been so upsetting the situation with my daughter that I am not concentrating as I should be. Thoughts of her are constantly in my head plus as this is an autoimmune disease my body is on fight or flight so is primed to attack any allergens I make a mistake on.
Today is going to be a quiet day. I have a book to read for my book club and have started painting water colours. Maybe watch a film on Netflix later. Mince pies are in the bin !!
Take care lovely ladies,life can be difficult but with each others compassion we will live another day.

Congratulations Smiles & Mr.S

It was Mike Oldfield 'Tubular Bells' fantastic!

I am not concentrating as I should be which for the vast majority of us would be an irritant, but for you Jaffa is potentially very serious indeed.

Even with Mr. S. by my side, living with our estrangement has been the hardest and most painful thing I've ever had to deal with. How much harder for you with your health issues and having to be constantly aware of not putting anything into your body which could be potentially lethal.

What a wonderful friend R is. It must be a comfort to your DD to know that he's there for you and a great source of comfort and support to you.

We're so fortunate to have these people in our lives whether they are family or friends and of course to have one another here on this thread.

Going into town this morning to make a small transfer to another account to make sure everything's as it should be, before transferring the rest of the money.

Wish we weren't so twitchy when it comes to things like this. We didn't open the champagne until we knew the money was in our account, but I suppose the solicitor's mistake on Monday didn't help.

Then we're going to order a new suite we found on Wednesday. The two settees here are OK but I want something that makes more of a statement. What we're going for is not at all what I had in mind but as soon as I saw it, I knew it was the right one.

We're getting it in 'petrol blue' and it's going to look fabulous when it arrives in January, and that's not all. I'm getting a new car!!! Well it's 3 years old and I'm going back to an automatic with a Toyota Aygo in red.

I love my little Fiat 500 but after the problems I had with it last year despite being repaired, I've lost confidence if I'm going anywhere without Mr. S. and he worries about it too. Now we're living here I need to be confident driving as I can't just walk into town like I could before.

Today really feels like the beginning of this new chapter in our lives .
a flag ship that has weathered many storms and attacks by pirates and still sails the sea of life just love this Whiff and each and every one of the crew .

Oh Yogin we saw that performed on stage a few years ago. Two Australians performing the entire thing, it was brilliant and we enjoyed it so much that when we got home, we played the album .