Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Bridie22

These special days are especially hard aren't they, but lovely that you had support from your family 💐

Thanks Bridie.
🌹

Birthdays are poignant, no wonder you shed a tear Babs, we lose so much and so do they...

Allsorts

Birthdays are poignant, no wonder you shed a tear Babs, we lose so much and so do they...

Very true Allsorts.
We all lose out to be honest and for what?
We still don't know the answer to that.

Estrangement is talked about more openly now and children grow up and question, I know I would have. I would have to find out for myself no matter what my parents meant to me..It’s not the gc fault they had no say in it. We missed precious childhood contact but one day for a lot of us we will see gc again.

Smiles I waited 7months for the property I wanted to buy, only for them to decided not to sell

It's really awful what's happened in Florida, feel really sorry for everyone going through that nightmare.

Had a good haircut yesterday, very pleased with it, so have booked for Xmas eve. They are a walk away in the first parade of shops nearest me. I was always put off by the name 'Big Yin', as it gave me the impression of a very trendy young salon. I was suprised when I asked the meaning of the name; it's Scottish for 'Big Guy' . So, after 2.5yrs I've found my hairdressers.

Out for lunch with friends today.

Sorry to hear that Babs. Nice your other family took time to see if you were OK. xx

Yoginimeisje

Sorry to hear that Babs. Nice your other family took time to see if you were OK. xx

Thanks Yogi.
Very cold here this morning, going to take it easy before a weekend babysitting.
The Big Yin was Billy Connelly’s moniker 🤣
Glad you have found a good hairdresser, I am still looking after a friend who was a mobile hairdresser retired, she said she could continue to do my hair but I think she just felt she has to say that so will look at some hairdressers near me. Like you I don’t want a trendy young place.
Take care everyone and have a good day 🤩

Yogin glad you found a good hair dresser.

Babs when my son sent everything back for their birthdays unopened and the babies presents crushed . I harden my heart against ever sending any again . I don't even look at cards or look at toys and think would they like that.

I always asked our children and after my husband died if there was anything they would like for birthdays and Christmas even before they had children. And what to get for the boys . Never brought clothes but gave money to get them things . But when the estrangement started I compared the couples and how they treated me . And realised the presents my son and daughter in law before and after the boys where born where more expensive than what my daughter and son in law wanted. I had a set budget for birthdays and Christmas presents and stuck to it . Even their wedding gifts my daughter and son in law asked for towels cream ones and blue ones . I knew how much I could spend. So they had a lot plus M&S had a sale on so my money when further. 4 years later my son and daughter in asked for a Kitchen Aid mixer it was more expensive than the towels . But had a deal from John Lewis which came with 2 free accessories. But I gave my daughter and son in law the difference between the prices . As we never treated the children differently when my husband was alive and I continued after he died.

The 2 grandson's I knew with my son didn't have as many gifts but I always spent the same on each families .

It's funny remembering back . I suppose the signs where all there but as I live over 100 miles away just happy to be with them .

I am glad when people can get their children back in there lives and as much as I miss my son and 3 grandson's I am happy the way things are . As my son wouldn't like to hear what I have to say. Or be corrected on his changing history or his assumptions on how I reacted to things . And any relationship would be on my terms my tolerance for bad behaviour is at zero. Others may not agree but it's how I feel.

Heard today my cardiologist referral has been approved and will be getting an appointment. Also had an appointment for my bone density scan on the 30th it's 3 buses as it a different hospital I usually go to was going to have a taxi to get me there but my daughter said she will take me as it's half term my son in law has the week off . Seeing my neurologist's registar on the 1st but it's only one bus as it's the hospital I usually go to. Drops off and picks up right outside the hospital.

Weather is weird here today heavy rain then blinding sunshine . Having a friend pop in this afternoon for things she forgot on Saturday.

Tomorrow at the library taking down the exhibition and Sunday my daughter and boys coming . The boys want to make me some biscuits to bring as nannie usually makes them they told their mom .

Anyway sorting out boxes of books and marking which authors are in them did 4 yesterday and 4 more to go .

@whiff, your attitude is inspiring, I also am at peace with things now though occasionally things catch me off guard like yesterday. Like you I am lucky to have other ACs who give us the love and strength we need, and like you I know there were signs when we last saw our estranged daughter and GCs that all was not right. In fact it couldn’t be more wrong. But we put up with it in order to see the GCs, until it became impossible.
Glad your daughter is taking you to the hospital, it can be tiring have so many appointments and 3 buses is a lot.
@Allsorts we do wonder if our GCs now they are teens, the oldest will be 16 next year, might try to seek us out, but they were so small when we last saw them that I very much doubt they remember us at all. And wouldn’t put it past our daughter to tell them we are dead. She has said this to others. 🙁

Babs not inspiring but thank you . Just decided the only person hurting was me. And my tolerance for bad behaviour is at zero where my son is concerned. Have no time for what ifs or if onlies . Past is gone I live in the present and plan for the future . I know my 2 grandsons have forgotten me as they where 4&2 and their brother I have never met or have a photo or know his name or date of birth . And expect my son has either to told them I am dead or I don't want to bother with them . But I haven't got time to worry about that .

Taking down our exhibition today and out everyday next week . Since moving my life has never been so full which I love .

Morning everyone, hope you're all keeping warm and dry.

When you stop doing something which is important to you, and you've been doing for sometime, it does feel weird Babs and no longer sending even a card to the GC you're not allowed to see, will be difficult to begin with.

Your cousin is probably right, that they weren't being given what you were sending so they wont be aware that you've stopped.

It does happen when GC are old enough that they find out where their GP's are and contact them. Ours never knew us so it's extremely unlikely that they would and it's not something I would ever want, but I hope for those who would love to see their EGC one day, that it happens for you.

Children do ask questions as you say Allsorts and I suppose if they're asking why they never see GP's much will depend on the answers they receive, as to whether or not their curiosity is satisfied or they want to find their own answers.

That must have been so annoying Yogin having waited for long. Pleased you've found a good hair dresser, once found they're worth holding onto if you can.

We've heard from our friends in Florida, the house thank goodness is unharmed with just damage to the screening around the pool.

Your DD is such a wonderful support Whiff it must be a great comfort having her nearby and your GC who bring so much joy into your life .

We have friends coming this evening for a meal, the first time they'll have seen our lodge. Having previously made a lemon meringue pie for friends last week, I made a rich chocolate cake yesterday for this evening. Always a little wary making meringues and cakes in a new oven for the first time so pleased both turned out well .

A hi from me on this new thread too! I am an infrequent poster but wholly acknowledge how important and necessary it is. Well done to the faithful who’ve kept it going!

Thank you for your post Spring, it's nice to see you popping on .

Spring20

A hi from me on this new thread too! I am an infrequent poster but wholly acknowledge how important and necessary it is. Well done to the faithful who’ve kept it going!

Hey Spring good to hear from you.
Stay in touch 👋🏽

@Smiles, you’re right, what feels weird right now will soon become the norm. And though in our hearts we would want to see our GCs our heads would advise against the baggage they would bring with them thanx to their mother, at our ages is hard to know what would be for the best.
Babysitting for our daughter in London today. Our granddaughter is a lively toddler so kept us both on our toes. Lots of nursery rhymes and games then took her to the park until it rained.
Shattered now 😂

Babs03

Continuing discussion from previous thread, Sparkly Gran and Smiles you both cited 'acceptance' as helping with estrangement. I agree. And though it is hard won, with so much pain and heartbreak preceding it, so many times spent soul searching and agonising. Without acceptance it is impossible to start living again instead of existing.

Is it maybe like bereavement where you have to go through various stages?

It is a bereavement theworriedwell, a living bereavement as we grieve for the AC and GC we've lost who continue their lives without us.

I have accreted but will never understand. I've missed my gd growing up, that can never be put right, that is why I no longer
think of my d the way I did. I love the person she was before she decided her family were not what she wanted. Her friends are her family.
We have to live with what we have now and apart from the odd nostalgist wobble, I do. It's comforting knowing other go through this, not wishing it on anyone though. also that eventually life is good again.

Like you Allsorts I too will never understand, I will never understand why I havent been given the opportunity to have even a conversation about the situation, I will never understand a daughter leaving her shielding mother alone without any help during covid, I will never understand what I did to deserve the ongoing silent treatment.
Maybe I will reach the point were I don't need to understand,
Take care all .

Smileless2012

It is a bereavement theworriedwell, a living bereavement as we grieve for the AC and GC we've lost who continue their lives without us.

I was thinking of the process of going from moving from the initial heartbreak to how people say they have accepted it and moved on. Does that follow a process so saying to someone who is at the beginning of the journey that they need to accept it and move on is perhaps not realistic at that time.

I've seen and heard people say it a lot but I assume it is one of those things that you can't do till the time is right or am I wrong and someone can just decide to accept it without going through stages. I suppose everyone is different.

My husband had a similar situation with a step child he loved very much. The little boy was only a toddler when DH met him and apparently they had a very close relationship. The child was sent for a holiday with grandparents and his mother moved out so DH never got to say goodbye. Even when we had our own children it bothered him. He always sent presents until one day I said he had no idea what this teenager liked and a friend told us the mother took the labels off and gave him the presents from her so he then stopped that.

Fast forward and one day a tall handsome young man arrived at the door and asked for my husband. My immediate thought this was an unknown child of my husbands, he looked like him. Husband went to the door, he looked shocked and then they walked off together and had a long talk. The young man was that step child and he wanted to understand what had happened when he was 5, he also wanted to tell my husband he was fine and happy and getting married. They said goodbye, no further contact but I suppose it was what Americans call closure.

Just thinking about it and I suppose the difference between bereavement and estrangement is one is definitely final, one might not be. The old saying, "it's the hope that kills you" seems to sum it up, with death, apart from faith beliefs in the afterlife, we know we can't do anything or hope but that isn't the same with estrangement unless or until you get to the point where you say you won't re-engage even if they want to .

As with the death of a loved one, when someone's been estranged telling them they have to accept what's happened and need to move on wouldn't be appropriate when it's happened very recently.

There's a myriad of emotions to go through, the most painful being that they have chosen to cut you out of their lives, not something that happens in the vast majority of cases when someone has died.

The final word of your post @ 9.37 theworriedwell is the one thing that EP's are never able to truly experience; closure. I'm genuinely pleased that your DH and the young man who was his step child managed to achieve that.

I once saw and EP talk about 'the hope devil' because hope in an estrangement situation can be very damaging to the one estranged, if it prevents them from moving on with their lives.

I was in a closed online group for EP's several years ago and saw how destructive clinging onto that hope can be. Some who despite being estranged for years, continued to stockpile birthday cards for their EAC and EGC. Spending hours tracking them down on social media, to catch glimpses into the lives they were living but would never be a part of.

The hope was 'killing' the possibility of another life, a different life, a life to be lived despite not having the AC who estranged you and in many cases GC too as a part of it.

We, Mr. S. and I and the vast majority of those who post on this thread now and have done so in the past, can't do anything to bring about change. Just as the bereaved cannot bring back the loved one who has died, we cannot bring our EAC back to us.

No you can't bring them back to you but I imagine for some people, and possibly for most people initially, there is hope and like I said is it is the hope that kills you.

I think it did bring closure for my husband, it certainly troubled him less. One thing he was very clear about was that he did not criticise his ex to the young man, he wanted the meeting to be positive although he obviously had no time to prepare for it. Maybe he had rehearsed it many times?

I agree Smiles there are several stages to go through, the first few the hardest, as with any bereavement. And acceptance is bittersweet inasmuch as when it happens we let go of our AC and GCs, but is like reaching a cliff edge you either keep right on going in the same state of denial and fall off the edge or take another direction towards a different kind of life, one where there is acceptance and so the chance to heal and once more enjoy life.
Hope those at the beginning of this process can take strength from those who have been through it and from loved ones still with them.
Take care 🙏🏾❤️

I suppose the other difference is that with bereavement you usually are losing one person, of course there are exceptions with terrible accidents or terrorist incidents but in the main, whereas with estrangement it is often multiple people - your child and GC for example.