Estrangement

Hi Poppy,
Sorry to hear that you have been estranged from your daughter and GCs for some years now. I have been estranged for many years, and yes there was some influence from her husband as well as his family, but she takes all the credit for her behaviour towards us, she was not coerced in any way.
In your case this is worrying, a husband who encourages his wife to cut ties with her family is probably a control freak and will not be good news for your daughter but if she is enabling him you can't do anything about it, as you already know for the restraining order proves this much.
As for therapists, my daughter saw one just before we were estranged, and from talking to us normally one week suddenly started coming out with stuff about disconnecting from toxic influences and getting rid of the dead wood in order to free herself to get on with her life. These were not terms she would normally use, and shortly after seeing the therapist she became increasingly abusive/hostile.
To be honest a family therapist in circumstances like this I can understand, then everyone has their say, but any other kind of therapy I would definitely advise against.
I know is hard but you have to at some point try to move on so that you can heal. Nothing you can do will change things right now and if you keep trying your own wellbeing will suffer.
I wish you well with this.
xx

Hello Poppy. I'm so sorry that you are going through this, it's heartbreaking to lose your child and GC due to estrangement.

Until our son married we had a great relationship but have now been estranged from him and our only GC for almost 12 years, and we do believe that this is due to his wife.

Coercive control is abuse and as with all situations where there's abuse in adult relationships, the abuser does everything they can to isolate their victim from family and friends. They don't want them to be in contact with anyone who may have and voice any concerns they may have about the relationship.

Over the years I have seen examples of AC who having had therapy/counselling have made the decision to estrange. You say you know her therapist advised her to break ties with you, presumably because she told you.

That could be the case but it might not be, and could be your D and/or her husband's attempt to give the decision to estrange validity, saying that the decision's been taken on the advice/suggestion of a professional.

Whatever the reason; her coercive husband, advise from a therapist or a combination of the two, as you'll have discovered there's nothing you can do to change it, only your D can and maybe one day she'll be willing and able too.

In the meantime make the most of what you do have. It isn't easy as all of those who've been estranged can attest too but it's the only thing we can do x

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MarmaladeMarmot

This has to be a copy cat, no way this is real.

It's not just a coercive husband, but the Therapist hates you too? Next you'll say their church pastor, neighbor and dog all think you should be estranged from.

I’m thinking a windup as well. Her coercive husband forced estrangement but her therapist agreed with him? Either this post is make believe or perhaps you’ve left out whatever missing reason the husband and the therapist joined forces against you.

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Taking the post at face value.

First off, I have never seen a counsellor/therapist in my life, but I was always under the impression that these therapists, or good ones, never TELL anyone to do anything. I thought they just discussed things so that the client could work out what THEY wanted to do. 🤔

So, unless you have been contacted by the therapist (highly unlikely), you can only be going by what your daughter/SIL is telling you.🤔

And, of course, therapists can only go by what they are being told by their client. The account of events could, in any situation, be a Fairy Story, the whole truth or all things in between.🤷‍♀️

I would, for now, just let the whole thing calm down, and get on with your life, painful as it might be.

Best wishes.💐

You're right that a good therapist/counsellor doesn't tell their patient/client what they should or shouldn't do DL, which is why I suggested in my earlier response, that that may not be the case.

With all the unpleasantness there's been recently, caused by 'new' posters on this estrangement forum it would be a shame for Poppy to be silenced which is what happened on another thread, if this is a genuine post.

Poppy hasn't said her D's therapist hates her MarmaladeMarmot and it's interesting that you've mentioned the murder of a pet snake as that was in a thread intended to dupe members of this forum, by an EAC.

Where does your assumption that it is in fact the OP, a mother/m.i.l. who is at fault for being over bearing coming from? Or is this simply another example of how it can never be the EAC whose responsible.

Coercive husbands/wives/partners can be responsible for estrangements Grams so why do you think this may be a wind up? Why does there have to be a missing reason for this situation and why does that have to be a fault of the OP's which you appear to be suggesting?

I'm not sure why the OP is being met with incredulity, it's not as if estrangement is always because the parent's at fault and never because of a relationship with a coercive partner, so I suppose it could be because it doesn't fit with the preferred narrative of others.

I hope you wont be deterred from coming back Poppy.

How do you what her therapist has said?

If Poppy comes back March she'll probably tell us she was told by her D and/or her si.l. which would make sense. I wouldn't have thought anyone would think she had direct contact with her D's therapist.

Grams2five

MarmaladeMarmot

This has to be a copy cat, no way this is real.

It's not just a coercive husband, but the Therapist hates you too? Next you'll say their church pastor, neighbor and dog all think you should be estranged from.

I’m thinking a windup as well. Her coercive husband forced estrangement but her therapist agreed with him? Either this post is make believe or perhaps you’ve left out whatever missing reason the husband and the therapist joined forces against you.

It seems as though the wind up was from the now deleted poster - not the OP. 🙄

Hello Poppy41 The therapist could be a positive in helping to identify an abusive husband. Maybe take it as an opportunity and go to therapy with your daughter?

That might prove difficult if the daughter can’t/wont talk to OP. 🤷‍♀️

Let's hope that the deleted poster hasn't put Polly off coming back on DL.

That's a good point Luminance s/he may help the OP's D but it's notoriously difficult for the victim of coercive abuse to break free, especially when their family has already been estranged .

Not a good idea to be too quick to judge Grams.

Hey Poppy, apologies for earlier posts, as Smileless said there have been trolls on threads to do with estrangement recently and some are jumping to conclusions.
But do come back to let us know how you are getting on and remember to look after your own well-being for if your daughter is being coerced and one day breaks free she will need both of you there to be strong for her.
Take care xx

Or both perhaps. It seems odd that the daughters counselor wouldn’t recognize the coercive husband for what he was is all I was thinking. Generally speaking therapists don’t tell on what to do but support them choosing for themselves what is best for them. And simply put. I think this forum and perhaps ep in general are quick to find l coercive spouse “ as the e obvious answer to estrangement - perhaps because it leaves little blame for themselves or their eac. Yes it’s possible yes it happens but I find it to be more rare than ia believed here. I also think it’s even less likely if indeed the women’s therapist has supported and encouraged an estrangement. So unless the therapist part is made up coercive controlling husband ! Seems not to fit the bill. Of course the daughte could in theory fabricate things to tell the therapist but then that’s the issue not a mysterious controlling spouse. And given the large number of fake poaters lately it rings untrue to me.

To take it on face value I’d encourage poppy to take a hard look at the estrangement and look for other clues as to why her daughter may have estranged. Things she said , etc. if she told them her therapist supported the estrangement what were the reasons given. What else did she say - even before that in terms of issue with the relationship , perhaps even things that poppy didn’t think much of at the time or seem like they were significant. And focus her energy on that rather than rendering herself and her daughter blameless and focusing on third parties. Coercive spouse , therapists etc. truly coercive spouses also rarely allow their partners to attend therapy - they want total control and therapists are all about working on oneself and maintaining control over one’s own emotions and circumstances. Therapists pose a threat for controlling individuals.

@Grams2five
Unless the OP is the exception to the rule I would imagine both parents have unpicked every occasion and conversation they have ever had with their estranged daughter, trying to find what they did so wrong. Is a fallacy that estranged parents suddenly lose a much loved daughter or son and simply say ‘oh well it’s nothing to do with us let’s just blame everyone else’, self analysis comes first. Indeed the first thing most of us do is beat ourselves up, to take the blame and the shame for whatever we might be blamed for. The most asked question parents say to each other is ‘what have we done?’
But if these parents are years into their estrangement they have probably exhausted self analysis and instead examined what is going on with their daughter, and a coercive partner is not out of the question.
As for therapy I don’t recommend this with estranged ACs unless is family therapy, of course that is if the issue of safe keeping is not in question, because one side of anything that could result in permanent estrangement is not advisable, surely all sides should be taken into account. And though there are good therapists out there it has hit the news recently how little therapy and counselling is actually monitored, and suggestibility is probably high with young adults looking for a sympathetic ear.
Just my opinion though so take it or leave it.

Simply put, I think some on this forum particularly those who have estranged or whose partners have estranged, are too quick to pour scorn on EP's who know or suspect that their EAC is in a coercively controlled relationship Grams.

We believe our ES is in such a relationship but have never allowed that to render him blameless, we are his parents and he has gone along with it, so the responsibility is just as much his as it is his wife's.

If you'd taken Poppy's OP at face value rather than being so quick to judge, you could have avoided saying you thought this was a windup as there's been nothing so far to suggest that it is.

The last thing that anyone needs when coming to a forum looking for advice and/or support, is to be accused of winding up forum members simply because they are the one whose been estranged rather than being the one who has estranged.

The lack of monitoring of therapists and counsellors is concerning as you say Babs. There are good and bad but without sufficient safe guarding the bad ones can and do cause more problems than they solve.

Babs03

@Grams2five
Unless the OP is the exception to the rule I would imagine both parents have unpicked every occasion and conversation they have ever had with their estranged daughter, trying to find what they did so wrong. Is a fallacy that estranged parents suddenly lose a much loved daughter or son and simply say ‘oh well it’s nothing to do with us let’s just blame everyone else’, self analysis comes first. Indeed the first thing most of us do is beat ourselves up, to take the blame and the shame for whatever we might be blamed for. The most asked question parents say to each other is ‘what have we done?’
But if these parents are years into their estrangement they have probably exhausted self analysis and instead examined what is going on with their daughter, and a coercive partner is not out of the question.
As for therapy I don’t recommend this with estranged ACs unless is family therapy, of course that is if the issue of safe keeping is not in question, because one side of anything that could result in permanent estrangement is not advisable, surely all sides should be taken into account. And though there are good therapists out there it has hit the news recently how little therapy and counselling is actually monitored, and suggestibility is probably high with young adults looking for a sympathetic ear.
Just my opinion though so take it or leave it.

Key words there were “so wrong” Estranged persons often don’t find the reasons for estrangement so wrong. They think of them as little things Which is why I suggested looking for things they didn’t think were a big deal. As for therapy being a poor choice for those in estranged relationships I did that hogwash. Therapy is good for most anyone . Especially those struggling to deal with things like estrangement. And I believe I said he’s coercive partners do exist. But they tend to dispose counseling. I spent years volunteering at a women’s shelter for victims of controlling partners and domestic abuse. Controlling partners absolutely keep their partners from going to to therapy counseling etc because they want them under their control. Therapy would threaten that.

Poppy41

We have been estranged from our daughter (with whom we had a great relationship) and grandchildren for a few years.The problem is her coercive husband who has now succeeded in completely cutting her off from us even to the extent of trying to get a restraining order on us without success. We no longer know where she lives and when we have managed to speak to her she has completely changed. We also know that her therapist has advised her to break ties with us.This is so painful.Is there anyone who has had a similar experience of coercive partners and or therapists who have succeeded in destroying a previously great family relationship?

I do know estranged people. The reasons vary.

I suspect the best solution may be to self reflect, even to the things one sees as small/nothing. Then ignore and move forward.

I agree Norah that moving forward is the only way but you can't ignore the fact you've been estranged by your own child because the impact on your life is too big to simply ignore.

I would say, from other sources, from younger people, that coercive spouses are more common than we sometimes realise. Obviously, this also depends on various opinions as to what actually constitutes coercive.

It’s very much an individual thing.

Much like seeking counselling - it will help some people, others will find it to be a waste of time.

Every estrangement is different - and sometimes it is better to just accept the status quo and move on.🤷‍♀️