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Estrangement

Another perspective on estrangement

(181 Posts)
ShropshireGal87 Wed 18-Dec-24 09:09:17

As we all know, there are many different scenarios that lead to estrangement in families and every one is unique. There are posts from estranged parents here about EAC who cut them off with little information or warning, parents who have been estranged over something seemingly trivial, and posts from EAC who have understandably decided to protect themselves and their families from future harm after years of abuse.

Sometimes EAC are described as having "thrown their parents away" or being cruel and disinterested. I am not doubting that is the case for some, and impossibly painful to cope with. I just wanted to give the perspective of a EAC who was very reluctant to estrange. For some EAC, they have tried to reach out to their parents numerous times, and would have loved for their parents to enter into a discussion about the situation so it could be resolved, only to be met with denial, refusal to listen, insults and complete lack of self reflection. For some EAC this can keep going round in circles for years because they really believe, or perhaps just hope, that something will shift one day and the situation can be resolved. They write letters, emails, have phone calls trying to explain the issue, only to be told at a later date that their parents have got no idea what the issue is.

They too see the adverts on TV of the perfect families at Christmas, or have an idea in their head about how things should be, and feel sad that they don't have that. But eventually, accept that the situation isn't healthy for anyone involved and it would be less toxic to cut ties and end the cycle.

I'm not quite sure what my message is. Perhaps just to remind everyone that every single situation is completely unique, and that an outsider can never fully understand the ins and outs. That EAC sometimes do give the reasons for estrangement and yet their parents claim not to know it, and some EPs do genuinely not know the reason, and that both of those situations are infuriating and heartbreaking. That some EAC may have been influenced by a third party, but also that some EPs do put the blame on a third party because it's easier than accepting dysfunction in their own family. But someone else having the opposite experience to yours does not invalidate your experience, and there is room for empathy for people on all sides.

I cannot understand the reasoning behind the "troll" posts but if they are intended to change people's ways of thinking, unfortunately they only serve to separate EAC from EPs who might otherwise benefit from hearing each others points if view.

Let's not make assumptions either way about people we know so little about.

BlessedArt Thu 19-Dec-24 00:14:48

I find it incredibly easy to skip over combative, rude posts that are clearly meant to upset. Once I read and I see where it’s going, it takes no effort to avoid reading more. I simply scroll on.

I do agree that generalizations and name-calling do no one a favor in discussing this topic. Family conflict is complex. An ‘us’ vs ‘them’ mentality in these types of settings isn’t very helpful because you simply can’t know anyone’s full story well enough to declare total innocence or guilt in their situation. I think if people take the approach of listening to one another and taking each situation as its own, there is more room for productive conversation.

DiamondLily Thu 19-Dec-24 08:28:31

Yes, families can be complicated. Personalities also vary. All sorts of issues can cause estrangement.

I think it get combative when an OP posts their situation, whatever it might be, and there’s then, sometimes, a pile on, with complete strangers calling them “liars” or delusional. 🤷‍♀️

And, then, of course, you’ve got the regular bores who are hell-bent on causing disruption, and not actually helping. 🙄

Babs03 Thu 19-Dec-24 10:09:34

Agree DL, trying to apply a ‘one size fits all’ to estrangement is like trying to knit water.
No case is ever the same.
And apportioning blame to random strangers on a forum is fruitless though for those wishing to do so it might make them feel better for all of two seconds, it does nothing to further their understanding.

BlessedArt Thu 19-Dec-24 11:29:00

DiamondLily

Yes, families can be complicated. Personalities also vary. All sorts of issues can cause estrangement.

I think it get combative when an OP posts their situation, whatever it might be, and there’s then, sometimes, a pile on, with complete strangers calling them “liars” or delusional. 🤷‍♀️

And, then, of course, you’ve got the regular bores who are hell-bent on causing disruption, and not actually helping. 🙄

I find the pile ons happen in various circumstances with various individuals involved. Takes at least two to tango and there is seldom a shortage of participants on this forum, whatever their estrangement status may be. Just an objective observation.

When others engage long drawn out arguments, it’s not really helpful and most of the time gets personal. Ditto for the unnecessarily snide or sarcastic comments meant to subtly provoke.

I enjoy the conversations like the one started by this OP. I enjoy offering support. Sometimes I like to offer a perspective as a grandmother who is close to what I hope is an avoidable full estrangement because my primary purpose in posting is to help another avoid such a fate. I don’t enjoy the generalisations as though we’ve all met each others EPs or EACs and can therefore insult them along with the family member (not speaking of clear abuse cases at all, obviously). This forum has the potential to encourage healing or further a rift, and so I keep this in mind when I post. Someone else is reading and potentially carrying the positive or negative encouragement back to their real life situation. Words can be powerful, especially to those in delicate, emotionally vulnerable states.

Ziggy62 Thu 19-Dec-24 12:02:47

Sensible words, especially "takes at least two to tango"
Lots there to think about

Smileless2012 Thu 19-Dec-24 14:49:23

I hope that you manage to avoid permanent estrangement BlessedArt. As long as there's communication and a willingness from 'both sides' to find a resolution, estrangement can be avoided.

I sincerely hope that this will be the case for you.

InoAlot Thu 19-Dec-24 19:33:42

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Pantglas2 Thu 19-Dec-24 19:47:57

Well Inoalot, I’m mostly a reader of these threads rather than a poster (the descriptor ‘lurker’ told me a lot) and I’d be interested in examples of supporters of EAC being nastily attacked as I can’t recall any.

Those who post with the intention of rubbishing a whole contingent of EPs or EACs are spotted a mile off…the negativity of their one sided posts shines through if you get my drift!

Still, the support for all sufferers of estrangement overcomes eventually thankfully.

BlessedArt Thu 19-Dec-24 20:38:37

Smileless2012

I hope that you manage to avoid permanent estrangement BlessedArt. As long as there's communication and a willingness from 'both sides' to find a resolution, estrangement can be avoided.

I sincerely hope that this will be the case for you.

Thank you for these kind words, Smileless.

In truth, I am more worried about my sister’s relationship with her son and family. It’s odd but I feel like no matter how angry she is with me, she won’t permanently cut herself off from contact. I can’t explain. It may be a “big sister” thing. She’s made sporadic contact with me about very random, mundane things. I think she is trying to test the waters to make sure I haven’t gotten too fed up with her shenanigans, but still keeping her heels dug in.

She is right. I am upset with her but she is my sister. That door will pretty much always be open, even if she stands us all up for Christmas.

Oh well! We are all just living life one day at a time. I hope everyone can find their piece of happiness this holiday season. flowers

Babs03 Thu 19-Dec-24 21:03:07

@BlessedArt am sure your sister is doing more than just testing the waters, she probs really needs you right now, with all the trouble she is encountering with her son and family she must be feeling pretty low and vulnerable, even though am sure she can put on a front.
You are doing the right thing by keeping the door open.
Am hoping if things don’t work out at Xmas that they become resolved in the New Year.
All the best 🌺🙏🏾

Smileless2012 Thu 19-Dec-24 21:20:29

Your second post has reminded me about your family situation that you posted about recently BlessedArt.

As Babs has posted, you're doing the right thing by keeping the door open. There are some things that cannot be explained and when it comes to your sister, no explanations are needed.

There is a blood tie there and sometimes but not always, that tie can weather the strongest and most destructive of storms.

I hope that you and yours will be able to find your piece of happiness this Christmas, and that you sister can find hers too, with you flowers.

Allsorts Fri 20-Dec-24 07:50:00

I believe if you can, always keep the door open. When that door slams shut its too late.

ShropshireGal87 Fri 20-Dec-24 10:16:24

In my case, and I'm sure in many others, it is not that I don't care for the people I have had to estrange, only that the issues we had could not be resolved while they refused to acknowledge them and denied certain events had even happened, and new issues kept arising because of this inability to discuss things openly. So while it was becoming toxic for everyone involved to keep going round in this circle, and I believe it's healthier this way, it does not mean that I wish anything bad upon them, nor that I wouldn't be very upset if something happened to them. I suppose it's inevitable that without any evidence to the contrary, EPs could come to believe that their EAC feel nothing but contempt towards them (in some cases that will be true) but taking a step back because you believe it's for the best doesn't necessarily mean there is no love there anymore.
I would offer support to them if I were made aware that anything significant happened to them e.g. loss of a loved one or serious illness. What are other EP and EACs thoughts on this?

Bridie22 Fri 20-Dec-24 10:32:51

As an estranged parent I am open to any form of communication that explains why we are at this point in our lives, the whys and how,and can it be resolved or not?

Smileless2012 Fri 20-Dec-24 10:38:59

taking a step back because you believe it's for the best doesn't necessarily mean there is no love there anymore absolutely ShropshireGal and it also matters how that's done.

Being an EP I may be wrong here, but I wonder if it's easier for the one who estranged to be there for that person if there's the loss of a loved one or serious illness, than it would be for the one whose been estranged.

Being told your are no longer a part of their lives and are to stay away for me anyway, would make reaching out in those circumstances virtually impossible.

It must be extremely difficult for all concerned if an EP dies. What does the EAC do then and how would the surviving EP and perhaps wider family feel if they were to get in touch? I can understand for the EAC that they could feel 'damned if they do and damned if they don't.

When thinking about and discussing estrangement there are many variables to consider, it's not always just as simple as a decision taken to walk away and sever all contact.

ShropshireGal87 Fri 20-Dec-24 11:03:47

I imagine it doesn't just depend on the circumstances but also on the personal feelings involved. For instance, one EP might welcome that support from their EAC and the other EP might consider it insulting. In some ways it might be difficult to know how you would even feel yourself until it happens.

Milquetoast123 Fri 20-Dec-24 15:03:26

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Smileless2012 Fri 20-Dec-24 15:12:06

I am too Bridie providing it isn't offensive and spiteful.

Smileless2012 Fri 20-Dec-24 15:52:32

There's no way of knowing the cause of most estrangements, we can only know have an insight into our own and of those that others share.

but who am I to judge right? you don't have the right to judge GilmoreGirl, no one does which is why generalisations aren't helpful and lend nothing to the discussion,

Bridie22 Fri 20-Dec-24 15:56:26

As Smileless says GilmoreGirl64, we don't have the right to judge, just support and try to understand, every estrangement differs from both perspectives.

Luminance Fri 20-Dec-24 22:17:14

I would offer my opinion on family estrangement. When family relationships dissolve into arguments they enter a debate phase. In any given debate, participants are stating their truth. If we look at any debate logically we are given to understand that truth exists on both sides and emotionally healthy people are able to see the truth in each others words and feelings and come back together again at some point in the middle with both admitting their inadequacies and moving forward together. Estrangement it seems to me happens when one party has confused "truth" for being "right". This attached their opinion to their ego and their pride will not allow a moments reflection. Typically it seems to me that when I meet a person who confuses "truth" with being "right" and their pride will not allow any opinion that is not their own to go unchallenged, they often have estranged or failed relationships. Typically those I meet who have walked away from failing relationships in the form of estrangement are those who wanted to find the truth wherever it was in the middle and realised that was impossible due to the other persons misplaced pride and overbearing ego.

DroppingIn Sat 21-Dec-24 03:41:04

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Allsorts Sat 21-Dec-24 05:49:33

Sometimes things can’t be fixed, no drama and false hopes as the gulf too wide. It takes time but you get there.

Pantglas2 Sat 21-Dec-24 06:00:08

Interesting Luminance.

I’ve found that anyone using the word ‘typically’ in connection with estrangement clearly hasn’t a clue on the nuances of behaviours leading to it.

Well spotted DroppingIn, how clever of you to acknowledge what we all know to be true!

DroppingIn Sat 21-Dec-24 06:25:59

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