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Estrangement

Another perspective on estrangement

(181 Posts)
ShropshireGal87 Wed 18-Dec-24 09:09:17

As we all know, there are many different scenarios that lead to estrangement in families and every one is unique. There are posts from estranged parents here about EAC who cut them off with little information or warning, parents who have been estranged over something seemingly trivial, and posts from EAC who have understandably decided to protect themselves and their families from future harm after years of abuse.

Sometimes EAC are described as having "thrown their parents away" or being cruel and disinterested. I am not doubting that is the case for some, and impossibly painful to cope with. I just wanted to give the perspective of a EAC who was very reluctant to estrange. For some EAC, they have tried to reach out to their parents numerous times, and would have loved for their parents to enter into a discussion about the situation so it could be resolved, only to be met with denial, refusal to listen, insults and complete lack of self reflection. For some EAC this can keep going round in circles for years because they really believe, or perhaps just hope, that something will shift one day and the situation can be resolved. They write letters, emails, have phone calls trying to explain the issue, only to be told at a later date that their parents have got no idea what the issue is.

They too see the adverts on TV of the perfect families at Christmas, or have an idea in their head about how things should be, and feel sad that they don't have that. But eventually, accept that the situation isn't healthy for anyone involved and it would be less toxic to cut ties and end the cycle.

I'm not quite sure what my message is. Perhaps just to remind everyone that every single situation is completely unique, and that an outsider can never fully understand the ins and outs. That EAC sometimes do give the reasons for estrangement and yet their parents claim not to know it, and some EPs do genuinely not know the reason, and that both of those situations are infuriating and heartbreaking. That some EAC may have been influenced by a third party, but also that some EPs do put the blame on a third party because it's easier than accepting dysfunction in their own family. But someone else having the opposite experience to yours does not invalidate your experience, and there is room for empathy for people on all sides.

I cannot understand the reasoning behind the "troll" posts but if they are intended to change people's ways of thinking, unfortunately they only serve to separate EAC from EPs who might otherwise benefit from hearing each others points if view.

Let's not make assumptions either way about people we know so little about.

ShropshireGal87 Mon 23-Dec-24 20:21:54

I suppose you could say control was a factor in my estrangement too. I felt that by cutting contact I was trying to take back some control over things in my own life. As issues arose and became confrontational exchanges of messages and demands for responses, the anxiety these arguments caused would take over days of my life at a time. Often out of nowhere a new message with accusations of cruelty or some ultimatum would pop up and take over whatever else I was dealing with that week. By requesting space (indefinitely) I have attempted to find some peace and hopefully bring some peace to them too, as they are also freed from those exchanges, such can't have been healthy for them either.

But it certainly hasn't been about trying to exert any control over anybody else.

For those EPs who talk about their EAC trying to hurt them, I'm genuinely asking (it's not always clear in written communication) what makes you think your EAC want to hurt you or wish you any unhappiness?

Smileless2012 Mon 23-Dec-24 20:28:38

Our first GC's first Christmas present just a book, was pushed back through our letter box 12 years ago tomorrow on Christmas Eve, with a note telling us we were no longer a part of our son's and GC' s lives and were to stay away.

No warning. No attempt to address any issues there may have been and no explanation then or now.

I think that shows that our son wanted to hurt us and make us unhappy ShropshireGal, and that was just the beginning.

Allsorts Mon 23-Dec-24 20:58:58

Smileless, Whether the book was pushed through your door by your son or daughter in law it was cruel and cowardly, Christmas Eve when families get together especially with a new grandchild, when I think how you close you used to be, living just a few doors away, theres no excuse. I’m glad you have finally have the home you love and it has made you and Mr S even closer, they are the losers.



, I think pushing that book through was cowardly abd cruel

Babs03 Mon 23-Dec-24 21:00:31

Well there are a litany of hurts that we could list. The abuse and gaslighting, poisonous texts on social media, lies told to my side of the family so that we are estranged from them as well, including my sister and nephews - fact is a cousin who remained loyal to us throughout now says the scales have fallen from the eyes of many who turned against us when we needed them most, but we cannot forget or forgive.
And last but not least the fact we know she tells people we are dead. Easier to explain I suppose.
Our other three daughters were estranged from her before we became estranged and urged to cut off because she was being abusive.
It took a nervous breakdown for me to realise the truth.
We don’t ever want to contemplate the necessity to protect ourselves from our own ACs.
Has taken me 11 years to recover and even now I suffer from anxiety and panic attacks.

Babs03 Mon 23-Dec-24 21:08:50

Smileless2012

Our first GC's first Christmas present just a book, was pushed back through our letter box 12 years ago tomorrow on Christmas Eve, with a note telling us we were no longer a part of our son's and GC' s lives and were to stay away.

No warning. No attempt to address any issues there may have been and no explanation then or now.

I think that shows that our son wanted to hurt us and make us unhappy ShropshireGal, and that was just the beginning.

As Allsorts says, cowardly and cruel.
The ways our EACs hurt us are as varied as they are brutal. And the hurt runs so deep in my opinion it causes trauma that we accommodate and so learn to live with but can never be cured. Is similar to changing ones life to live with a disability, we live the best life we can but it can never be like before.
😣

Bridie22 Mon 23-Dec-24 21:08:58

Very similar to what happened to Smileless, a note pushed through the letterbox overnight at xmas, saying to leave them alone as they had nothing to say, no reason, no explanation no communication...just dumped like a bag of rubbish.
Like Babs, it floored me, still does.

Babs03 Mon 23-Dec-24 21:22:04

Bridie22

Very similar to what happened to Smileless, a note pushed through the letterbox overnight at xmas, saying to leave them alone as they had nothing to say, no reason, no explanation no communication...just dumped like a bag of rubbish.
Like Babs, it floored me, still does.

Horrible Bridie, and that is how we feel, dumped like rubbish or kicked to the curb, treated worse than they would treat a stranger in the street.
🌺🙏🏾

Meseren Mon 23-Dec-24 21:24:21

Smileless2012

Our first GC's first Christmas present just a book, was pushed back through our letter box 12 years ago tomorrow on Christmas Eve, with a note telling us we were no longer a part of our son's and GC' s lives and were to stay away.

No warning. No attempt to address any issues there may have been and no explanation then or now.

I think that shows that our son wanted to hurt us and make us unhappy ShropshireGal, and that was just the beginning.

I'm aware you're referencing that situation as not being an isolated event, but would disagree that the only conclusion of that as a standalone example is that your son wanted to hurt you, Smileless. Of course, the only person who can know that is your son, but it still wouldn't be my first conclusion.

If I returned a gift to somebody who I had decided I didn't want contact with, it would be because I had made a choice (since receiving a gift from somebody, including a gift intended to be passed on to somebody else = having contact) and I was sticking with it, not because I aimed to weaponise it. Being hurt by somebody holding to their decision doesn't mean they held to their decision with the intention of hurting you. The impact doesn't determine the intention.

I understand feeling hurt by his decision not to discuss it with you before cutting ties, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he specifically chose not to discuss it with you because he wanted to hurt you. He likely knew it would hurt you and chose to do it anyway, but that still doesn't mean he did it for the purpose of hurting you. A clumsy analogy: people drink to excess despite knowing they will have a hangover the next day, not because they are aiming to be hungover.

crazyH Mon 23-Dec-24 21:36:39

He likely knew it would hurt you and chose to do it anyway, but that still doesn't mean he did it for the purpose of hurting you.
What on earth are you talking about ? Psycho-babble !!

Bridie22 Mon 23-Dec-24 21:39:26

Meseren...that is a clumsy analogy, we are flesh and blood , not stone,, of course our children know what will hurt us!

crazyH Mon 23-Dec-24 21:41:01

My comment earlier was intended for Meseren

Meseren Mon 23-Dec-24 21:44:01

Babs03

Well there are a litany of hurts that we could list. The abuse and gaslighting, poisonous texts on social media, lies told to my side of the family so that we are estranged from them as well, including my sister and nephews - fact is a cousin who remained loyal to us throughout now says the scales have fallen from the eyes of many who turned against us when we needed them most, but we cannot forget or forgive.
And last but not least the fact we know she tells people we are dead. Easier to explain I suppose.
Our other three daughters were estranged from her before we became estranged and urged to cut off because she was being abusive.
It took a nervous breakdown for me to realise the truth.
We don’t ever want to contemplate the necessity to protect ourselves from our own ACs.
Has taken me 11 years to recover and even now I suffer from anxiety and panic attacks.

What a horrid situation you describe, Babs, and to have tried to continue the relationship despite your daughters urging you otherwise. It is always best to be out of harmful relationships, but that doesn't mean the ending and subsequent distance won't still hurt flowers

If you don't mind me asking, did your other three daughters also end up estranged from your side of the family? You don't have to say, of course. I always find it sad when so many are pulled into "taking sides".

Luminance Mon 23-Dec-24 21:50:15

I would say when the time comes to end any relationship, it is well known to cause pain, sometimes for all involved. However if the intention were to cause pain then, to do something to hurt and wound so that it could be enjoyed, it would be done repeatedly without allowing recovery.

Meseren Mon 23-Dec-24 21:52:48

crazyH

*He likely knew it would hurt you and chose to do it anyway, but that still doesn't mean he did it for the purpose of hurting you.*
What on earth are you talking about ? Psycho-babble !!

Oh dear. I didn't intend to confuse, CrazyH smile

For example: You recently hurt your back and go with a young child to the park. They want you to push them on the swings but doing that would hurt you so you say no. They are upset by this, and you knew that they would be upset by it but you chose to say no anyway. That doesn't mean you said no because you wanted the child to be upset, it was just an unfortunate byproduct of your real intention (protecting your health and wellbeing).

Hope that's less psycho-babble.

Babs03 Mon 23-Dec-24 22:09:15

@meseren, yes our other three daughters are also estranged from my side of the family because they knew their older sister was lying and could see the toll it had taken on us

Luminance Mon 23-Dec-24 23:04:46

It is very difficult to understand at times why people do what they do. There is indeed much horror in the world and most of it is caused by human beings. Often there is a motivation or trauma point that began the mental decline. Should someone find themselves estranged by one such then every day their blessings should be tallied. We all know that abusers rarely let a victim find peace, even those who beat their victims are often surprised when they kill to find they went too far. I could not find it within me to spend too much time hurt that one such left my life. I think the relief would be overpowering.

ShropshireGal87 Tue 24-Dec-24 00:34:29

Thank you for those who shared their personal experiences. It must be incredibly painful for that to feel like it was sprung on you and in some examples it does at least seem like hurting their EP was intentional.

I understand what you're saying Meseren and think you're right that in some cases the hurt that is inflicted on the EPs is a by-product of the estrangement rather than the intention behind it. That's not to say the EAC aren't aware that cutting contact will hurt their EP, only that the hurt caused isn't the reason or a motivation for doing it. I also agree that returning gifts isn't always done with the intention of causing upset, but accepting gifts when already no contact can feel like giving mixed messages. Gift giving is a particularly complicated issue in estrangement I think.

Allsorts Tue 24-Dec-24 05:45:25

It's Christmas, such a diffucult time for some families. I don't think trying to rake things up and analyse helps estranged parents. We've moved on and it feels like a pyschio experiment to satisfy a few amateurs,. The trolls piled in now, they are banned, we've this. To continually pull a scab off a wound helps no one, we don't need therapy or analysing , the past is best left where it is. I think this post has hurt people but I for one am glad I wasn't the one that estranged.
💐 Bridie and those with young gc on this Christmas Eve.

Babs03 Tue 24-Dec-24 06:22:08

Thanks Allsorts.
🌺🙏🏾

Bridie22 Tue 24-Dec-24 06:36:05

I agree Allsorts, let's try and enjoy Christmas with those we love and care about us, of course we will miss certain people, but im thankful for those who have stood my corner.
Happy Christmas 🎅

Whiff Tue 24-Dec-24 07:08:29

Allsorts lovely post and so true . But unfortunately the trolls will be back and us estranged parents will be getting attacked yet again .

ShropshireGal sorry your thread attracted the trolls but it's always the same . Estrangement is always a target for them . Bah humbug to them.

Merry Christmas to everyone else and hope 2025 is a good year for all. 🎄⛄🥂

ShropshireGal87 Tue 24-Dec-24 07:46:27

Hi All sorts. I'm sorry you feel this post has hurt people. I'm not sure why you consider it some sort of experiment.
I'm an EAC trying to deal with a difficult time of year for those estranged (in both roles) in my own way, and have turned to a forum about estrangement to post on that topic, and have found the conversation between EACs and EPs helpful. I'm grateful to anyone who wishes to engage with the things being discussed, but nobody is forced to engage or share their story if they feel it is "pulling a scab off a wound". I completely agree Christmas is a difficult time of year, and more so for some posters who have shared that their estrangement actually started around Christmas time, but some people do find it cathartic to discuss things, or share their story in hope of helping others, while others do not. Some EAC and EP don't want to go into details and I expect they therefore protect themselves by giving this post a miss, just as I won't be reading any bereavement posts to avoid painful feelings. But that doesn't mean anyone posting in the bereavement forum is trying to "rake things up", and while I don't find it helpful to discuss my experiences on that topic, others will find enormous comfort in sharing their experiences with others and I'm glad that works for some people, just as I hope some people are finding something worthwhile in commenting on this post.

eddiecat78 Tue 24-Dec-24 07:46:47

Most EAC aren't stupid. If they recognise that something they intend to do is hurtful but continue to do it anyway, obviously their intention is to cause hurt

Meseren Tue 24-Dec-24 08:51:18

That's a shame still, Babs, but at least a decision made by them rather than the decision of duped parties I guess.

Eddiecat, as I have explained in two of my recent posts and ShropshireGal echoed in hers, I don't think that conclusion is in any way obvious.

I agree, ShropshireGal. The beauty of internet forums is that nobody can make you read or respond to anything at all, you're safe in your home to choose to engage as you like. Anybody who is "picking at scabs" by contributing is doing so of their own accord and I can't see why they'd need the conversation to end entirely when it's completely within their power to just stop following the thread.

Also, ShropshireGal, I think we're in a similar position! For the first time, I will be spending Christmas bereaved and estranged (not by choice but by necessity) and have found this thread helpful smile thanks

Smileless2012 Tue 24-Dec-24 09:03:48

A succinct post eddie tchsmile.

It may not be possible to do something you need to do without hurting someone, but it's usually possible to mitigate that hurt if causing hurt isn't your only/main objective.

In some cases the act of estrangement isn't enough. Lies are told to mutual friends and family member as history, more than being re written is completely fabricated. Great effort goes into trying to cause a split between the parents who've
been estranged and their other child(ren); thank God in our case that this was unsuccessful and our DS was aware of what was going on.