Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Whoops got that wrong, because are postponing my DDs birthday due to illness I thought we were postponing Mother’s Day too, Mr B just looked at me blank when I said this. So is next Sunday.
Will get my coat 😂😂

Babs we changed the clocks next week as well. My daughter asked me the other week what I wanted for mothers day and don't say nothing. So asked for a frame for my hedgehog cross stitch. When she came last week with the boys I showed her my new light weight cross over bag I brought for my holiday. She said mother know I am in trouble when she says mother . I could have brought you that . Told her but I wanted the frame she says you could have had both. I hate her spending money on me but I worry about other family and friends as well. I love giving but worry about what people spend on me . To old to change my way of thinking as have been like it since a child. My brother and me knew our parents didn't have high paying jobs so when asked we only asked for one present for Christmas and birthday we always got a couple more . On our wedding list . Do couples still do that ? One of the things we asked for was a tea strainer . We didn't put anything on that cost over £20. It was 1981 and VAT had gone up to 15% .

@Whiff I worry about people spending on us, one of our SILs loses his job at the end of this month, he gets redundancy but that doesn’t last long with the cost of living today. Was brought up with parents who never had much but tried to make it go as far as possible for us, and we experienced unemployment when younger. I think is such a waste of money making grand gestures on Mother’s Day. We will see the family next weekend and for us that is all that matters. But because they keep banging on about it I have said to all put in together and get me a selection of teas, only from the supermarket, not arty farty teas that cost an arm and a leg. Am trying to give up coffee after a case of tachycardia that made me think I was having a heart attack.
@Smiles didn’t know that you sing in a choir, is something I have always wanted to do, might look up local choirs when we move will be a good way to make friends I would think.
Take care
🌺🙏🏾

If possible see the person and receive a nice card, I don't like choosing presents for people unless I really know what they want. Sure I don't get it right. That's why people recycle presents. Much nicer a meal out and a catch up.
I’ve told my son I don't need anything it will just be lovely to see him. A gift voucher is a good idea but you end up sending the same value back, if the company is still in business. What I do very often if out with someone and they see something they like I get it there and then.
I certainly do not want anyone struggling financially for me, I remember those days when my children were small and little cash. Its not about the money its the time and tge warmth if a person that matters.
Babs do hope your sil gets a job soon and doesn't use his redundancy, my husband was made redundant twice and it was such a struggle, you soon go through any money you have. It does make you see whats important. Its extra hard when you have children shooting up.

Babs we are already booked for TC for Mother's Day, so can relax with no cooking or clearing up afterwards; the bit I dislike. Will put some flowers on my mum's resting place first, so on my way home from my Yoga class.

Meeting a friend [fellow yoga teacher] for coffee today, walk on beach first, so fingers crossed it doesn't rain & that Joey behaviours himself.

Whiff just as you enjoy buying and giving presents, so does your DD for her DM.

Babs so you are going to have a lovely cooked meal out for Mother's Day after all; enjoy.

My AC know it's a lovely card that I treasure, not bothered about a gift, but my DD always gets me something all the same.

Smiles I'm sure your son in Oz will be 'Face-timing' you on Mother's Day and I know how much you love that. You may even get some lovely flowers, as you did last year xx

Long time lurker here. I have read all the stories of estrangement for comfort. Over the years these types of stories helped me feel like I was not alone.

For years hubby and I looked at where we went wrong. Both of us were from abusive, narcissistic homes. We raised our kids with love. Never hit them, always there to talk to, very much their cheerleaders in life.

Life was so good and our family very loving. Our youngest's personality changed as she was finishing college. Gone was the kind, happy girl and she changed to a very exploitive personality. She became very classist, and very status driven. Eventually she dumped her friends and family who were not succesful. Then the day came that she married someone very cruel and dumped us. Later she rewrote history and instead of the child who parents who paid for her college, her college housing and car she became the girl who was on her own as a teen. As time went on her remaining childhood and college friends dumped her. They did not recognize her anymore.

I see where we went wrong at least in one regard. The narcissist gene runs strong in our family trees. Hubby and I started out lower middle class. We sent our kids to private schools with some very wealthy families. We wanted our kids to have the opportunities we never had. And they are very succesful in their careers. Our daughter took awhile to find out what she wanted to do, changing majors a few times. We supported her. We wanted her to choose a career she wanted.

I think in private grade school and high school is where our daughter learned envy. While a bright and popular girl who had the same clothes, same toys and other nice things, she also had the father who picked her up from school in his work clothes, in an old car. Until her teens I was a SAHM who did not have a career. I know some of mother's looked down on me for this. I think she was more bothered by this then we knew.

My daughter did and still does surround herself with very cut throat, very wealthy people. My daughter's personality is very much like some of her relatives. My husband and I have talked exhaustively to each other about this. How could she have changed so much to become like them? Was it the unneeded ADHD stimulants she used in college combined with alcohol? Did this switch on the genes that are so strong in our family trees? Where we just crappy parents?

Did we spoil her too much? She had everything we could give her but she never acted spoiled or unkind until college. Should we have done things differently? Why does our son show empathy but she does not?

She's back now after burning down almost every bridge. After years of seperation I get a text as if she had never gone away. Then the phone calls and asking to meet. Now she remembers all the good times. I remember deleting all my social media when she demonized us over and over again on that media.

My husband pointed out that this is the love bombing tactic my mother uses on us when she wants something or knows she has pushed us too far. I see it. I wish I didn't.

I have no illusions of having the relationship we once had and neither does her father. She acts exactly like my malignant mother. Even her phrases and speech are eerily similar.

I'm just stuck trying to model appropriate parental concern, support without giving advice or giving her future ammunition to use against us if she decides again to go on a rampage of half truths and lies.

I'm frightened for her. I see her one day living the lonely life of my mother. I'm glad she will have financial resources. I'm exhausted.

Thanks for reading.

Allsorts and Yogi I too like a lovely card with a heartfelt message inside. Have kept so many cards over the years, used to have a scrapbook at one time.
I recall getting bored waiting whilst my old mum took her time buying a card, it had to be just right for the person. And she had beautiful handwriting, always used an ink pen. Her cards to me are some of my most treasured. Always light a candle on Mother’s Day for her
🙏🏾🙏🏾🌺

@portrait, welcome to the thread, always feel free to pop in, there are good people here if you need them.
Your daughter sounds a bit like my estranged eldest daughter. She kicked us to the curb for a couple of years then came back for 5 years before kicking us to the curb again, is 11 years now and counting.
Is futile trying to figure out where you went wrong, don’t go down that road. You and your DH know you love your daughter and gave her everything you could. We have three other daughters who are also estranged from our eldest and thankfully love and support us. And you have a son who loves you. So if we were the worlds worst parents why didn’t they also head for the hills.
I worry about your well-being now your daughter has returned. Treading on eggshells constantly so as not to be accused of anything is exhausting mentally, and your daughter will know she has you both where she wants you, able to threaten another estrangement or make more accusations if you don’t do exactly what she wants.
Time to draw boundaries and let her know that things have changed. That now you and your DH are getting on with your lives and that if she wants to be a part of this she has to give and not just take.
Wishing you strength 🌺🌺🙏🏾🙏🏾

Portrait, I feel for you. Your daughter, Babs and mine are the same, I really think we are better letting them be estranged. Your daughter is back, I don’t envy you. I can’t forgive what mine has done, the harm she has caused, she broke her brother’s heart and for me that was it. Shes better staying away now.
Please look after yourselves, don't let her bring you down again, your husband is right, she has used everyone else up so her only option was be alone or come back.
Come on here any time as we all understand.

Thank you Babs03 and Allsorts for the warmth and compassion. Sorry that both of you have felt and lived with the pain of estrangement.

A very warm welcome to the support thread Portrait, it's lovely to see you here but as always there is sadness that someone else is battling with the consequences of estrangement.

I think your husband is right. Taking into account your family histories this does sound like 'love bombing' and typical narcissistic behaviour of appearing to assume that because she wants to come back, she will be welcomed with no thought of the pain and anguish she has caused and more than likely, no expectation of having to take accountability.

Each and everyone of us has spent hours dissecting the childhoods of our EAC, trying to see where we went wrong but as we all know, we all made mistakes along the way because there's never been a parent and never will be a parent who wasn't less than perfect and there never has been and never will be a perfect child.

So as well as being a member of the 'estranged parent club' that no one ever wants to qualify for, you're also a member of the 'damned if you, damned if you don't' club.

Would your daughter have turned out differently if she'd never been given all of the wonderful opportunities you gave her? You'll never know but what you do know is that she was raised by caring, loving and good parents so please don't ever forget that.

Like Babs and Allsorts I worry for you and your DH's welfare having been through so much already it's imperative that you put yourselves first. You love her, we love the son who estranged us more than 12 years ago but unlike you, we don't have the courage to ever have anything to do with him again, no matter how much he may want it.

When we lost our youngest son, we lost our only GC but for us being estranged just feels safer now .

Yes Smileless, I agree, feeling safe and calm is priceless after going to hell and back for years on end. Is hard won and we are now too old to survive those rigours again.

Portrait I wish you luck with your returning AC, as you say; she has unfortunately inherited the family narcissist gene, at lest you recognise that. Lots of good advice for you, from the regular posters here.

Portrait there are many conditions that present with similar traits as narcissism and even narcissistic personality disorder is treatable. I would look carefully into supporting and finding help for your daughter before her choices in life make it too late for her to consider any treatment due to being able to face shame at her own behaviour. There may be rather a lot that you don't know about your own daughter's life and what may have triggered an illness is some kind. Perhaps it would help to look at what went wrong rather than what went right because even should your recollections and hers mismatch entirely, a cry for help has been issued. You are either able to offer help and support or able to make a decision to terminate the relationship but continuing to reside in it while comparing to your own parent or anyone else's will only harm you and your daughter. They are separate people and have come to their current state by different means and with no ability to diagnose may not be the same at all.

So sad that after all we as EP have been through, all the hurt, worry, self reflection, despair, guilt, sadness….we now accept remaining estranged is safer, and in many if not most cases, prefer it over a reconciliation.
Says a lot about the deep emotional wound estrangement brings. And maybe that we’re not getting any younger and can’t cope with the chaos of estrangement as well as we might have done before.

Yes it is sad Spring but especially when the estrangement has gone on for years, I think it's understandable and maybe not what some EAC expect.

It takes many years for most of us Spring until we realise its only us that's hurting, that life is good. They have the life they chose, we don't figure in it.
Smileless, I hope you and your son in Australia see each other on FaceTime., I know how much he loves you. I wish so much you could give that hug that’s only for him.
Portrait, after all your heartbreak, put your feelings and the family always there for you, first.

I agree Allsorts, Spring and Smiles, after so many years, many of which we spent feeling utter heartbreak/grief, we have come out the other side and gradually healed our wounds, so to risk opening those wounds again just to potentially expose ourselves to the same pain and heartbreak is never going to happen.
As you said Allsorts we are the only ones nursing this pain, we know our EAC is getting on with her life and probably doesn’t spare us a thought. So is madness to continue hurting, life is too short and our wellbeing is as important as anyone else’s.
Take care 🌺🙏🏾

Well said Allsorts - yes our EC is getting on with their life and by all accounts is happy. I doubt they have any idea of how deeply it affected us. Amazing thing is after so many years we can now say life is good. Mainly because of the absence of drama.

I was wondering if anyone would like to share how estrangement has changed them in ways they didn't expect. We all know the heartbreak, the pain. But what about your personality has changed if you would like to share? I am very interested and thank you in advance. I am listing mine for anyone interested and wonder if any of these relate with you.

I more deeply appreciate the friends and family who stuck with us through the years and refused to accept the smear campaign our daughter enlisted against us. I think growing up abused and having my mother's flying monkeys support her lies I expected history to repeat itself. I am grateful for the people in my life who support us.

I view time differently now. I know how quickly things can change in your life and how you can unexpectly lose something precious to you. I find myself not looking towards the future for the most part. I spend my days living in the present.

Compassion. When I am with people there is always the thought in the back of my mind that everyone has a story that can break your heart. So I try to never burden people with my problems. I now can also more easily spot people who want compassion, but give none in return. I keep those relationships cordial, but have no interest in bringing those people into my inner circle.

Money. I've been known to be overly generous with family members and have cut down on that. I will always help a family or friend in need, but I have stopped funding their wants. That was a new boundary my husband and I created after estrangement.

New mantras. I tell myself "Everything will be allright, just not today" when I feel down. I also remind myself that I am not responsible for my adult children's decisions. And that there will be good days and bad days.

Anger. Sometimes you get angry because you are human. I taught my mother this one trick I have. I tell myself "you can be angry for this many minutes, and then you are going to push it out of your mind and do something productive". It helps me to not ruminate. I was pleasantly surprised that my mother claims she uses this daily and tells me about it during our phone calls. She is a very angry/abusive person so to know that she is trying to curb that and that this hopefully helps her not target the younger relatives in her house brings me joy. Who knew you could parent your parent?

Unfairness. I am not overly religious but when things seem unfair I remind myself that "God lets it rain on the just and unjust". I find myself fighting back on my upbringing that I'm always to blame when something is unfair.

It's okay to fail and admit it. I used to feel so much shame when I tried something and I failed. Now I say "Things didn't go in my favor" and try to learn from it without the shame. That one is not easy. It's a work in progress.

Cake. Growing older is hard and cake is delicious. So if there's cake, I am having some.

I have changed. I take nothing for granted, am aware that the carpet can be pulled from under our feet at any moment. Can be a bit a paranoid, especially with other relationships, in general I only trust a few people close to me. On a more positive note I make the most of each day, having wasted so many years already, life is too short so I am determined to live what’s left to the full.
Also I have ceased the mad and usually fruitless search for happiness, a transient feeling at best, content with a calm and peaceful life, hopefully with good health.
Occasionally I suffer feelings of anxiety, dread or panic, but these feelings are reducing over time. After my breakdown I suffered panic attacks for many years but haven’t had one now for 3 years or more.
I think overall I am more realistic about life and my expectations of others.
Xx

I identify with much of both of the above posts. Most significant is that I am wary of others - people who seem to pry into family relationships, and don’t seem to read the signs that I don’t want to talk about something. I value hugely those I trust and refuse to be a source of gossip for others. I too choose to be content with each day, and if I’m honest, have lowered my expectations of life. But that is ok - more than ok. It helps with the contentment.

I am very aware now when speaking to people, scared I will say the wrong thing and cause upset.
I have lost confidence in myself as a person, as I don't know what caused my estrangement, I think I must be a bad person... how could I hurt people I love, causing them to estrange from me... did I really cause that ?
I get very over emotional at times and find myself happier alone.