Not seeing grandkids

imaround

I am sorry, why should suing ones children for rights over their children be cheap?

And while the US does allow rights by Grandparents, one can't just rock up to court with all that money it costs and demand rights.

In most US states, grandparents I only have rights in very limited circumstances such as the death of a parent. In all cases, the burden of proof is on the person bringing the case. As it should be.

No, courts here look at the benefits, if the grandparents have been a big part of their lives and have given a lot of time to the grandkids, if they visited often. It's not necessary "rights" per se as it is an ability to have court ordered visitation.

Can't get too hung up on the word "rights". Father's have rights to joint custody, but some of them still have to go to court for those "rights". I think that's where we fail here in this country, making a father go to court, shouldn't be...

Surely though Starfire57 - whether here or in America it still had to be in the child's best interests?

I certainly would hope so!

I have just looked up Grandparent Visitation abd rights.

It is massively different state by state! 😱

www.grfcpa.com/resource/do-i-have-to-allow-grandparent-visits-after-my-divorce/?hl=en-GB

This talks about a case in Washington state.

NotSpaghetti

Surely though Starfire57 - whether here or in America it still had to be in the child's best interests?

I certainly would hope so!

Of course! Nobody would just hand over kids to a nasty grandparent....except usually those don't want them anyway.

Yes, it varies state to state. But mainly, if the child is receiving a loving, beneficial relationship from grandparents, usually they do get some visitation.

Almost half of American states also have filial laws that force adult children to take care of their elderly parents. Financially if not physically.

And don't even get me started on the child marriage laws that allow parents to legally give away their pre-teen daughters to pdf-files.

America is a country founded by abusers and made for abusers. Obviously, abusers love this fact.

Starfire57

NotSpaghetti

Surely though Starfire57 - whether here or in America it still had to be in the child's best interests?

I certainly would hope so!

Of course! Nobody would just hand over kids to a nasty grandparent....except usually those don't want them anyway.

Yes, it varies state to state. But mainly, if the child is receiving a loving, beneficial relationship from grandparents, usually they do get some visitation.

Why do you think the grand-parents wishes for the child matter more than the parents? Why do you think the grandparents know better what's good for the parent's own child?

Law isn't morality either. America has a lot of dumb laws.

It does look to me that applications are too easy in lots of places (if you can afford it) - even if the focus is still, in the end, on the child.
Just going through the court system is a burden and stress for the parent it seems to me.

The thought of being unmarried, moved away but still not free from your ex' parents when you want to be is quite peculiarly stressful I think.

NotSpaghetti

It does look to me that applications are too easy in lots of places (if you can afford it) - even if the focus is still, in the end, on the child.
Just going through the court system is a burden and stress for the parent it seems to me.

The thought of being unmarried, moved away but still not free from your ex' parents when you want to be is quite peculiarly stressful I think.

I suppose that depends on the ex's parents, right? My son left his wife, no children. Tell truth, her and I were really getting along, but it was a short marriage. Alias. One rule I always had, no matter who your kids marry, accept them and number one, get along and say nothing bad. Many parents, however, are having issues with their own kids, not their kids ex spouses, unfortuanately.

0nionJack

Almost half of American states also have filial laws that force adult children to take care of their elderly parents. Financially if not physically.

And don't even get me started on the child marriage laws that allow parents to legally give away their pre-teen daughters to pdf-files.

America is a country founded by abusers and made for abusers. Obviously, abusers love this fact.

Ok, like, ahaha, none of that is true.

Like, if you just hate America, why are you not just saying so? Why not just admit it? Are you jealous?

starfire57

Many of the laws in the US are archaic and cruel. Some are completely laughable. Stating that the US justice system is better than the UK justice system is blatantly false by most metrics.

Re filial law: 26 States and Puerto Rico still have Filial laws on the books

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsibility_laws

Re underage marriage : only 15 states have banned it completely. The remainder allow it with parental consent and or exceptions to the rule.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States

Re archaic and unjust laws - well we only have to look at the Heartbeat Law in Georgia.

Granparent rights states are not better than states that don’t allow it. Visitation is not always better for the child. Suing the child’s parents and draining their bank accounts so that the grandparent can get what they want is never in the child’s best interest if the parents are not abusive.

It’s not about hating the US. It’s about seeing it clearly

For the record, “America” isn’t just the US. It’s both continents and all the countries they include.

I'm not a fan of the US justice system at all, but filial laws are only enforced in one state. They may exist in others but are only enforced in Pennsylvania. Trust me, I did my research to make sure I couldn't be forced to care for my own parents.

I'm not American,I'm Irish.
I wouldn't go to court if it came to that.
I'd respect their wishes regarding their kids.
I'd miss them and live them from afar but I think I'd they said I couldn't see them.
I'd respect their wishes.

B7t as far as I know we've had no falling put.
I het on with my dilemma.
We've never had a row,I'm very respectful of their relationship.

What’s wrong without just saying to your son “I love those kids so much but I do wish I could see them a bit more often”.

Or is that too obvious?

Primrose53

What’s wrong without just saying to your son “I love those kids so much but I do wish I could see them a bit more often”.

Or is that too obvious?

I think that's obvious already to the OP's son, so we can only conclude the son doesn't actually care. It's horrible how some adult children treat their parents.

Not only would I never have even thought once of cutting off my parents or my in laws, but I always treated them with respect, even if I didn't agree with them or thought they might be getting too pushy, which they would at times.

I just politely listened and then made my own decisions if I disagreed, and at least considered what they advised without getting my panties in a bunch and banning them for life.

Maybe that's it. I just had a thought, maybe it's the insecure, self important, need to prove something young parents that just cannot take anything. They can't stand the thought that they could learn something from their elders, at all, because they know it all already.

How dare a grandparent care for and love their grandkids? Or worry about them? Awful, isn't it?

Well, guess we will see how that works out for them.

0nionJack

Almost half of American states also have filial laws that force adult children to take care of their elderly parents. Financially if not physically.

And don't even get me started on the child marriage laws that allow parents to legally give away their pre-teen daughters to pdf-files.

America is a country founded by abusers and made for abusers. Obviously, abusers love this fact.

Other countries have those fiial laws too and I don't know how they are in those countries,, but in the US those laws are dormant laws. They don't enforce them, they really just were not taken off the books.

I know about that personally because I had a lawyer when I became my father's conservator, I did it voluntarily, because he was incapacitated by a stroke.

I was told I would not be personally responsible financially or otherwise, to take care of him, at all, that as his conservator, I simply managed his needs. I would not be held liable for anything. It was strictly voluntary. I could have said no, but, then the state would have someone do it and I didn't trust a stranger to do right by him.

It works out here in the US, especially if you have a lawyer. Lawyers tell you the tricks some of the private facilities, such as nursing homes or hospitals try to pull to make a caretaker financially liable, and how anytime you sign anything , you sign it with the words "as representative only", never as the grantor or responsible party.

And what's cool is, what money my dad did have, I was allowed to use for the lawyer. Money well spent.

See, in the US, it's not so much the government but the private sector, the big corporations you have to worry about.

Ooof. You know, my last message, I think I hit on something in my own situation. Now I am remembering, anytime I would try to suggest something to my daughter with her kids, it was met with a kinda that won't work or things are different now answer. This wassn't always true, though...years before it seemed she would ask me this or that.

Insecurity. Having to prove something. That might be her issue. Well, I just didn't see it because she always looks confident. Even though, her son has been giving alot of problems at home and at school.

Well, me understanding the problem really doesn't fix it.

I have decided, though, not to care enough anymore to even try to help. The partial estrangment she's accomplished is enough for me. Let her struggle with it. No need to give her more rope to hang me with.

I would have done anything for her, really I feel like now that's not true anymore. How sad for both of us.

Starfire

Smileless2012

Starfire

Primrose53

What’s wrong without just saying to your son “I love those kids so much but I do wish I could see them a bit more often”.

Or is that too obvious?

I think in this climate it sounds a bit passive aggressive.

Starfire
They've 3 kids but I've definitely noticed the shift on the last baby.
She's a girl and I've all sons.
I think they're listening to people saying I'm going to overtake her as I've no girls, which is ridiculous.
I'm certainly not as close to the youngest and it's obvious when I see her she makes strange.

I really don't know what to do.

DubAngel

Primrose53

What’s wrong without just saying to your son “I love those kids so much but I do wish I could see them a bit more often”.

Or is that too obvious?

I think in this climate it sounds a bit passive aggressive.

Starfire
They've 3 kids but I've definitely noticed the shift on the last baby.
She's a girl and I've all sons.
I think they're listening to people saying I'm going to overtake her as I've no girls, which is ridiculous.
I'm certainly not as close to the youngest and it's obvious when I see her she makes strange.

I really don't know what to do.

Oh no. Once people assume something, it somehow becomes their reality. Now you have to deal with something assumed about you, my God, bad enough when they pick at things you actually may do, now it's the assumed things as well?

It's like we can't get a break.

I've been there too. Assumptions based on nothing but conjecture. I remember when my son married, my MIL and all her friends were in shock that I wasn't in some sort of mouring because I was so attached to him, both my kids actually.

I was just so happy. I loved the girl he married, and I felt so included in their lives that mourning anything didsn't occur to me. Yes, he wasn't around everyday anymore, but we saw them regularly and we also enjoyed her family.

Wish that one worked out. Unfortunately it didn't. He's still single to this day. But, no kids to fight over, that's one good thing. I only have grandkids by my daughter.

But those assumptions that I would fall apart because my son married, it really is kinda funny to me now.

However, the assumptions about you DubAngel are not funny, as no doubt they are effecting your relationship with you son and grandkids.

I'm not sure what you can do, because if you try to sort of ignore your only granddaughter to prove you will not "overtake" her, that would not be right for you nor your granddaughter.

Other people and their assumptions can ruin relationships.

I have had that experience myself. I'm not sure how to get stubborn ideas out of stubborn people's brains....I mean, proving them wrong is the only way. But for you, how, by acting like your granddaughter isn't all that to you?

Ugh, that's not the answer. I wish I had an answer.

I guess, just make sure when you do visit, to give equal attention to all the kids, not any more to her. I'm guessing you do that already and I think that's all you can really do.

Maybe they will see it, hopefully, and get rid of those assumptions.

User138562

I'm not a fan of the US justice system at all, but filial laws are only enforced in one state. They may exist in others but are only enforced in Pennsylvania. Trust me, I did my research to make sure I couldn't be forced to care for my own parents.

You are correct. As I mentioned in another post, it's the private corporations you have to worry about, not the government when it comes to the US.

I can't tell you how many times I had to sign things as my dad's conservator after his stroke, and always put "As representative" after crossing out "grantor" or "responsible party" on many forms!

That's how they try to get you, in case his funds were not enough. Luckily, he had enough funds saved, but if he hadn't, just signing on the dotted line may have made it look like I was agreeing to pay, and they could use that in court to make me do so.

So yeah, while those laws are not enforced, you can be tricked into paying here in the US if you are not careful.

Twice a month could be a lot, depending on how it works. Whole day visits twice a month, I'd find too much. One longer visit and one short visit would be much more workable. Or just fit in with the family plans, if they are open to that idea.

Regardless, cancelling on someone 9/10 times is just rude, unless there's some serious and unpredictable medical condition, as an example. If a friend cancelled on me 9/10 times I'd just not bother with them. It's rude.

I wouldn't go for any grandparent rights unless things are totally broken down (and even then, respecting the family might mean you wouldn't anyway). If my mother or MIL had even suggested they would consider this as a route, it would be the end of the relationship. Someone who would do that to us has no place in our life.

chocolatepeanuts

Twice a month could be a lot, depending on how it works. Whole day visits twice a month, I'd find too much. One longer visit and one short visit would be much more workable. Or just fit in with the family plans, if they are open to that idea.

Regardless, cancelling on someone 9/10 times is just rude, unless there's some serious and unpredictable medical condition, as an example. If a friend cancelled on me 9/10 times I'd just not bother with them. It's rude.

I wouldn't go for any grandparent rights unless things are totally broken down (and even then, respecting the family might mean you wouldn't anyway). If my mother or MIL had even suggested they would consider this as a route, it would be the end of the relationship. Someone who would do that to us has no place in our life.

Grandparents rights/visitation is only for when it is the end of the relationship and the grandparent has no place in their life. I'm not suggesting it to those who still have a place and a relationship.

Hopefully the OP isn't headed there, so she really wouldn't need grandparents rights. But it's a thought if this road leads to never seeing her grandkids again.

Starfire57

chocolatepeanuts

Twice a month could be a lot, depending on how it works. Whole day visits twice a month, I'd find too much. One longer visit and one short visit would be much more workable. Or just fit in with the family plans, if they are open to that idea.

Regardless, cancelling on someone 9/10 times is just rude, unless there's some serious and unpredictable medical condition, as an example. If a friend cancelled on me 9/10 times I'd just not bother with them. It's rude.

I wouldn't go for any grandparent rights unless things are totally broken down (and even then, respecting the family might mean you wouldn't anyway). If my mother or MIL had even suggested they would consider this as a route, it would be the end of the relationship. Someone who would do that to us has no place in our life.

Grandparents rights/visitation is only for when it is the end of the relationship and the grandparent has no place in their life. I'm not suggesting it to those who still have a place and a relationship.

Hopefully the OP isn't headed there, so she really wouldn't need grandparents rights. But it's a thought if this road leads to never seeing her grandkids again.

My understanding is it's very unlikely to succeed where the parents are together and in agreement about not seeing the grandparent, as it wasn't really designed for that sort of situation.

It really depends if you think it's worth the risk or whether keeping a chance at a relationship open is more worthwhile.

I do think it's a good thing if one parent has died or in the case of divorce, where a grandparent finds themself excluded due to that situation. Otherwise I can't see how it's in the best interests of the child to put their parents through a costly legal battle that will stress their parents and reduce the amount of money available in the home.

I, personally, would have moved countries if a grandparent tried that. Any grandparent that tried that with me would be dead to me automatically.