Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Hi
It's one of those days, havnt heard from my academic son for 10 years and some days are hard,I have flashbacks of what if I did things different it engulfs me until I'm a mess and I put my head under the covers and wander how long I can carry this torment around with me
I don't like the other two children knowing as they try so hard to make me happy, it's all gone wrong

Mandy some days are like this, the ‘what ifs’ the wishing things could have been different, but you do need to prioritise your own well-being, you mention two other children who obviously love you dearly - as you say they just want you to be happy - hold that love close and let it help you through this torment.
You cannot keep thinking of things you can’t change, life is too short, so look at what you can change about the way you are feeling. Find your own safe space, curled up on the sofa with a book, or out for a bracing walk, whatever clears the cobwebs.
This too will pass.
Xx

Thankyou babs03 for that lovely message, you are right of course x

Babs is quite right, you have two children that do care. I know you should only worry about things you can change, it's futile trying to do something about a situation you can't alter. I suffer a lot with health problems caused by me knowing all that but still grieving inside, which is stupid and pointless. .I over compensate by being upbeat.
Don't let what you do have, this valuable time now be spoilt by someone that doesn't care.

This site is amazing, it gives us all an onsite into other people that are feeling the same and understand what we go through, keep up the good work 👍

}}}Hugs{{{ Mandy I too get the same feelings as you, after not seeing my once DD&GC for near on 13yrs. As have been said; you have to move through those sad thoughts and enjoy the 2AC who are still in your life and love you. I truly hope your son comes back to you one day .

Thankyou for your understanding , I'm going to keep going and troop on ty x

Morning all, I hope you've survived storm Amy without any damage. We have two hanging basket 'trees' embedded into the lawn, with four heavy baskets on each and one has been blown over!!! Our willow tree also went over but is OK thank goodness.

I can imagine how you felt when you heard the crash from the upstairs flat Yogin, bringing back sad and painful memories.

Just like you Allsorts, I have a tendency to put off paperwork at home. There's always the 'I'll do it tomorrow' attitude when we have plenty of time on our hands but I bit the bullet yesterday and brought everything up to date.

An adult stroller for Mr. B. is a good idea Babs; a good suggestion Madgran. Do you think he'd be open to the idea? It would certainly make life a little easier for you both so I hope so.

Hello Mandy. We all know what it's like to have those days where we quite literally torture ourselves by reliving the past, and putting our EAC's lives under a microscope to try and see where we went wrong in a vain attempt to find the reason why we've been estranged.

Yesterday we went to the shop premises we own, which I ran as a gift shop for 6 years. It was my pride and joy; the best job I ever had and I gave it up to be able to help out with looking after our first GC when our ES's wife went back to work.

Our tenant has left and we went to see what needs doing to get it ready to re let. I stood there and cried as I looked at the lovely panelling our ES had done, and remembered the days we spent there together painting and assembling glass display cases.

I remembered how he would pop in when I was working, stand there with his arms wide for a cuddle and a silly but irresistible grin on his face.

My dearest friend was staying this week and even she hadn't made the connection between me closing my shop and the birth of our first GC. It was all for nothing because I never got the chance to look after him.

Our torment and grief stays with us like an uninvited guest that we can't get to leave. As time marches on many of us find that its presence becomes less invasive but there are still those days when it's all we can see, think about and hear and it's on those days that we need one another the most, which is why we'll always be here and you will always be welcome .

Have the best day you can have everyone xx

Thankyou you are so right, I don't feel so alone, I dread the end of the year as his birthday is in 27 th December
Things have moved in a slightly better direction as my other son's son is 3 on boxing day so I have to basically act my way through Christmas and pretend I'm ok, this spell is taking some shaking off but the support off here will no doubt bring me round, I'm sure you are the same when I say you get exhausted with fighting to carry on
I do hope you keep strong and we can all live in peace 🕊️

Smiles your recollections made me teary. All those hopes for the future. My most overwhelming feelings when I hear your story and the stories of other survivors on here, is how very unfair it all is, not just on us but on the GCs who are denied the relationship they would have with their loving grandparents. How can our estranged children justify it? If they want to cut off is their choice but the GCs have no choice in the matter. Perhaps the GCs in turn will cut off from their parents citing the fact they were robbed of a relationship with their grandparents. As I know, and am others do too, estranged children have accused their parents of less.
Thank goodness for this thread and the support we get from others who really ‘get’ what we are talking about.
Xx

Haven't read but just wanted up to know I haven't disappeared. Not been very well but I will be back rambling . You have been warned. 🤣❤️

Only people who it has happened to can understand the betrayal and the loss. Today met a friend for lunch and people at the next table welcomed their elderly grandma with hugs and flowers, it was her birthday, I thought I won’t ever have that again, I will die and she won’t know or care and why? For what? I have to push those feelings away like we all do.

Smiles the hardest thing reading your post is that like any loving grandmother you were willing to do what was needed to help your family. It cost in giving up something you loved. I will never understand how some AC find it convenient to ignore our good intentions, choosing to dwell on mistakes we may/may not have made instead. I just wish there could be more kindness in these situations.
Welcome Mandymoo - you have received some good advice here. We all have to work out how to deal with the tough days/times. As Babs said….they do pass, but it can be a challenge to stay strong in the meantime. An EC does affect other relationships though….i know I am so careful with our dil to avoid any misunderstandings, often explaining myself even when there’s probably no need to. It’s a hypervigilance born out of the hurt/incredulity of being estranged.
In other sweet/bitter news we have a new gc…which is lovely but has opened wounds re the gc we don’t see.

It is so cruel and a horrible feeling,no one understands unless they have this in their lives, there are too many in the same boat, I never new 😞

Yes there are a lot of us….but as you’ll also discover, many of us have learnt to really treasure the good things in our life. It’s as if the loss brings a deeper appreciation of things to be thankful for. We can’t escape estrangement- but we do learn to live with it, and in time the enormity of it lessens. That doesn’t mean we forget, just that the familiarity of living with estrangement somehow reduces its power.

Smiles I read your post first . The thought of you and Mr S looking round your shop and the happy memories you had then giving it up what you loved and the heartbreak you both faced made me teary . I know you lived close by your son for years after the estrangement which was torture for you both. Then your move to your old house which was your escape. But then the joy moving to your home a home that wasn't an escape but something you choose and wanted . And the happiness it has brought you . New adventures and friends .

Wednesday my oldest grandson will be 9 . Last time he had a birthday present from me was 2019. Because I lived over 100 miles away from my family I only saw them every few months . When my son and daughter in law even before they had children it was only for a day . Where as my daughter if she was working in the area it could be 1-2 days and when my son in law came they always stayed overnight . I treasure the time we had together . I used to visit them once or twice a year and stayed in a hotel as neither couple had spare room. Usually for 4 days but only ever saw my son and daughter in law one day their choice as they said it was the only time they had. Like a fool I believed them because I was just happy to be with them .

Last 5 years before my move could only go at Christmas time because my mom and mother in law couldn't be left any longer . My brother and sister in law had mom Christmas eve and she went home boxing day but she was still able to look after herself until 2015 . She lived with me last 18 months of her life . Christmas 2016 was mom's last Christmas and they realised what it was like looking after her as even though 2 of them they found it hard . Like me my sister in law is disabled she has MS but more mobile in those days . Mom had died 4 months before her body . But my son and daughter in law came down month after her first great grandson was born but only for few hours but have pictures of mom holding him which I can't look at . They came again by then mom was bedridden and she had died but here body live on round about her 90th birthday. My son took him to see mom but told him not to let her hold him by herself. Her dementia had made her violent but thankfully only towards me . Her last week she wanted her great grandson and she remembered his name . Only person she remembered. But at least she got to see him twice and hold him . They had photos on their walls of mom holding him only hope they didn't take them down .

Smiles you and Mr S didn't have the bond with your grandson or get to see him grow or his sibling . Can't remember if it was a boy or girl or if you know.

When I moved here I saw my son and both grandsons every week for 7 months . They where 4&2 last time I saw them in person and videos and photos. My son told me how much they got excited once they realised where they where going . My daughter in law had always been jealous of my daughter I knew that from their first meeting and when I was with them both couples behaved themselves. My daughter and son in law never made any comments about them . But my daughter in law made snide comments about my daughter when I was with them by myself but I choose to ignore them . Looking back I think she hoped I would say something so the estrangement would have happened sooner .

My daughter meet my son in law at uni in 2003 a month after her dad was terminal. And didn't know if she should go out with him . We both told her the same thing separately her dad was dieing but if she liked this boy then got out with him she had a life to live . They are still together and have to boys who I see regularly. Their youngest is the only one of my grandsons I have seen grow up from 4 days old he will be 5 next month . Thanks to the Clonazepam didn't have the limb jerks when he was born . But even when I had them they trusted me to look after their eldest who's 7 from when I saw him from the first time before my move here 6 years ago . But my son and daughter in law never let me look after my grandsons or even leave me in a room with them by myself.
And yet my daughter was 4 & son 6 months old when the limb jerks started and no harm ever came to them . I was hands on mom only thing I couldn't do was go out by myself for years .

My son and daughter in law have been together since 2005. They meet at college year after my husband died.

A friend on my HPX group who knows I am an atheist but said something to me about the estrangement. Apologies if I have got the thing jesus said wrong she quoted when you wipe the dirt off your shoes you leave it behind . That's what I have done in 2023 I stopped hoping to ever see my son or speak to him every again . I still love him but we are strangers now ,he is no longer the son I knew but I am no longer the mom he knew .

Sorry Smiles veered off again . I know how hard it has been for you and Mr S . But like you told me so long ago when I could only PM you before I had the courage to post openly my son made his choice and I did nothing wrong . Because of you answering my endless PMs and reading everyone elses posts I was able to talk about my son openly and haven't shut up since . This thread saved me from self doubt or blaming myself. My son made his choice I never saw it coming . He is to blame for his own actions . But I can never forgive him or forget the hurt he has caused not just me but my brother as he dumped all our side of the family.

My daughter didn't care as they hadn't got on for years but wouldn't hurt me by letting me know. And my son in law said he knew something was wrong for years but didn't want to hurt me . And that's the big difference between the the couples one wanted to hurt me for long time and the other protected me . Can't control my arms any longer butt willmbr back .

Oh Smiles heartbreaking .

After the last episode with my EstD in July, I actually feel cleansed of it all, I have stopped praying every night for my estD's safety and returned to us. I now see clearly that she has no feelings for us what-so-ever and has no qualms in doing us harm. So, my door has finally, after almost 13yrs, closed shut, due to what she threatened my DD with, which would have ruined her life.

Allsorts }}}hugs{{{ & xxx

Congratulation on your new GC Spring , my he/she bring you much happiness and love.

Wish you better Whiff xx

Yoga, like me you prayed and waited for those girls we loved so long, but they changed and we didn't or couldn’t see or believe it. A recent event has shown me how she doesn't care for anyone but herself and doesn't care who she hurts. I now see her as she is.

Whiff get well soon, glad you are still rambling though, look forward to your rambles so much.
Spring congrats on your new GC 🌹🎉
Allsorts, we know for sure our daughter doesn’t care an iota, she knew that my DH was not expected to make it at the end of March and has really struggled since, and tbh we didn’t want her to show up, then it would have been all about her, as usual.
But we are now in contact with members of my family whom we were previously estranged from also and they told us she didn’t miss a beat when she found out. They now realise what really happened all those years ago and how wrong they were to take sides, but I haven’t the time or the inclination to deal with their feelings of guilt. As I have said before I will neither forgive or forget.
Take care all and remember life is way too short, do something you enjoy today no matter how small.
🌹❤️

Morning all and thank you for your lovely responses .

The unfairness overwhelms us all doesn't it Babs, for ourselves, for one another and for the GC we've had taken from us and what are those children being taught? That family isn't important, it doesn't matter. You don't need your parents and your children don't need their GP's so will they I wonder be as shocked as we were and still are, if our GC estrange them .

Scenes like you described do bring home to us what we'll never have Allsorts. We're not fools; we know that all families have fall outs and problems but what they have that we didn't, is a willingness to overcome them to sort things out, because there's nothing more important than family.

I now see her as she is for me that was the hardest thing but the most important one too .

Congratulations on the safe arrival of your new GC Spring who no doubt will bring much joy into your lives. The
hypervigilance you mention demonstrates the far reaching affects of estrangement and how it permeates other relationships, as does the joy of this new arrival opening the wounds that not being able to see your other GC has caused.

That's right Whiff, we never really had the opportunity to bond with our first GS and didn't ever have the chance to see his brother but having spent so many years, reading about the heartbreaking experiences of other EP's and EGP's I really do believe that that lack of any meaningful contact/relationship, has spared us the grief that so many have to endure.

All those pm's Whiff. I remember them well as I remember how proud I was of you when you made your first post on the support thread, because I knew how much courage that took.

Almost 13 years Yogin. Sometimes it feels like yesterday and at others, it was another life. As you and all the regulars here past and present know my door closed sometime ago, but those waves of pain and grief still hit me with a force that takes my breath away, which is what happened on Friday.

They don't come with anything like the frequency they used too but when they do, the intensity of the pain is just as great as it ever was.

I don't think any of us knew just how many lives have been marred by estrangement Mandy until we came here. We all thought it was just us which is why although many don't know why, to begin with we think it must be our fault, and it takes time and being able to share openly with others to know that it isn't, it's theirs.

Mandymoo just read you post top of the page. Your son made his choice not you. You had no say in the matter please don't torture yourself all you have ever done is give him unconditional love . What he has done is down to him.

You are a caring loving mom who has children who love and care about you . You think they don't notice or know you are hurting but they do .

10 years it's time to let go with no regrets . Nothing you did or could do will bring your son back . He choose to decide he didn't want you in his life . I know it hurts to let go but you have too for your sake and all those who love and care about you.

I decided to stop hoping to see or speak to my son ever again in 2023 as the only person hurting was me . And I will not give him that power to hurt me and I have been happier every since . The hurt and grief of my husband dieing hurts far more than anything my son and daughter in law did or said. I lost half of myself the moment my husband took his last breath and haven't been whole since .
But my husband wanted me to live the best life I can and I do .

Estrangement is a living grief ,but real grief is thousands times worse . All those widowed here know that and it is something we live with daily or I do. I still love my son but the son I knew he is a stranger to me . But I am no longer the mom he knew so I am a stranger to him .

Your son if you think about it is a stranger and you are not the mom he knew . Yes it's hard to let go hope but if you don't he wins . That's why I decided to give up hope as I will not let him or my daughter in law win .

I miss my grandsons even the one I have never seen or know his name but I gave him one . Children grow so fast and doubt I would recognise the 2 I know . They where 4&2 last time I saw them . I doubt they remember me or whether they have been told I don't care about them or are dead.

Like my husband they are frozen in time .

I am lucky I have my daughter ,son in law and 2 grandsons who love and care about me . My daughter and boys were here yesterday and she laughs they and me have a better social life than she does. Before I moved here 6 years I existed but since then I live my life to the full. The past has gone for me I can't live with what if's or if onlies . I live for the now and future.

I don't know what the future holds for me

Mandy window cleaner came . Then texting with my daughter and booked tickets for Elgar concert in March. Because of being disabled on there access scheme so get a free ticket for a companion. Gave my ticket weeks ago back for concert next month Sir Stephen Hough playing Rachmaninov as no one wanted to go with me . But I go most places by myself anyway.

Makes me laugh when you see a consultant and they say X attended appointment by herself who else am I supposed to go with🤷.

Sorry Spring missed reading you are a nannie again . Congratulations hope mom and baby are doing well. Extra Christmas presents this year.

I have never blamed myself or thought I have done anything wrong to cause the estrangement. I did everything I could after their dad died to make sure they lived their own lives and let them go . Like I said to them both we had our time together and still would have if his cancer was survivable but it wasn't . But they had the whole of their lives ahead of them and they had to live it.

Before the estrangement my son could always talk to me even when his dad was alive both children could talk to us both . No subject was ever taboo. My son should have told me to my face it was the last time I would every see him . But I know he couldn't have done that . So he took the cruel cowards way out and did it via email . I told him many years ago when he did something and blamed it on his dad having cancer never make me ashamed of him being my son and he promised he wouldn't. He broken that promise . I am not ashamed he is my son but the fact he is a cruel coward.

Change of subject Yogin did the trampoline stay in the garden during storm Amy ? Some up here in big gardens when into the road or other people's gardens . My neighbour behind me is sensible and it's folded and stored behind his shed.
I well remember when your old neighbour died and how it upset you were even though you had your differences . Bet it was no fun for your son driving in the storm especially if it had canvas sides .

Smiles hope your garden was repairable . Thank you for saying you were proud of me coming from you that's means a lot . Trouble is I haven't shut up since 🤣.

This thread has been a lifeline for lot of people not just those who feel they can post but those that just read it and know they are not alone . How many thousands of posts has there been in all these years . This thread is a testament to the long timers that it still keeps going . Giving people a safe place to come and know they are understood and not judged . Support ,advice and most importantly of all friendship . People have tried to destroy it but failed because together we are strong . One old poster called us Warrior Queens. I always liked that even though some didn't.

Anyway better get ready sit fit class this afternoon. Take care of yourselves. 👑