Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

You are very welcome Babs you needed a little bit of cheer. Get those packers in to help your move be lighter, they are excellent and really make things so much easier.

Can't put it off any longer; have to do a 3hr webinar for my Cimspa membership, which I have to have to work in the gyms. When I had Covid I got my renewal notice for it, too ill to complete it. When I recovered and went to renewal, they said they had tec. probs. but not to worry the membership would carry on till they fixed things. That didn't happen and I had to do renewal as a new member, uploading all my certs. etc. which had all been deleted by their system automatically . My laptop crashed 2yrs ago, losing all my saved docs. All I had was my Yoga teacher certificate, which I sent a pic of and as that was from 2003, they said I now have to complete the 3hr webinar with Q&A. . I did the first hour yesterday, will do the second hour today and the 3rd tomorrow. Fingers X I get it right.

You will nail it Yogi!
Wishing you luck 🍀

Thanks Babs did my second one yesterday, doing the 3rd and last today. First one was interesting [a bit], second one boring, it's just promoting Cimspa and asking us to be their ambassadors. When we first had to become a member, it was called REPS [register of exercise professionals].

I and a couple of other yoga teachers refused to join, saying it was just a money-making scheme, which I still believe it is, but in the end, we had to join, otherwise we would not be employed by the Leisure centres or gyms! We also have to have insurance, plus a music licence, so quite a lot to pay out of our small income and being freelance, no sick or holiday pay. So, a job you do for the love of it, not for the wages.

As usual getting a page behind no idea where the time goes. Thank you for your support. Like I said it was seeing my son looking like his dad that upset. I know I am a fool to myself. But I can't help but check and see if they are still together. Like I check Rightmove to see if they have moved house. Idiotic I know . But if my son has been how he looked last time then it wouldn't have bothered me .

Anyway better read this page .

bohemian you are not a wicked mother you are a mom who has been hurt beyond measure. Your daughter's have destroyed the trust you had in them which is only natural. I know if my son ever wanted back in my life I can never forgive or forget and he has destroyed the trust I had in him . He never will want back in but to be honest I am happy with that . I am stubborn and have one hell of a temper which I haven't let go since my husband died, apart from at myself if I can't do something I want to do . This might give you a smile at move it or lose exercise class found I can't pop the bubbles on bubble wrap or shut a clothes peg. We where using them for finger exercises. No matter how hard I tried couldn't do it . In my head I swearing fit to burst 😂.

I never talk to my daughter or brother about my son or how I feel . I can talk to strangers but not them . I just find it's sad my son's boys don't know they have an aunt ,uncle ,2 cousins and great aunt and uncle . And my daughter's son's don't know they have another aunt and uncle and 3 more cousins .
But my son made his choice but karma is a bitch and one day he will reap what he has sown .

Babs my son dumped all our side of the family so it just wasn't me . But he hurt my brother very much as he said what the xxxx did I ever do to him . He was there for us all after my husband died but my son could talk to his uncle about things he didn't want me to worry about . He wanted to go round and sort him out but I said no it's done .

The ironic thing is my brother's second wife the mother of his 3 kids was and still is an absolute bitch. I blame her for my nephew's mental health problems and my brother should have protected him . But she did things when he wasn't around . I only know because my nephew could always talk to me and having a grown man crying in your arms because of his mom just made me detest her more.

My brother meet and married my wonderful sister in law and his kids took to her straight away . But his ex wife and her husband if they where all together completely ignored her which suits my sister in law . But I do thing it's funny my ex sister in law is green with jealousy that my brother found the other half of himself. As her marriage is rocky. ( Evil laugh 😂) .
Allsorts you are right his dad would be ashamed of him but then again he wouldn't have done it if he was alive as he would have been round like a shot and had it out with him . That's the sort of man he was .

I know Smiles and Mr S where badly hurt what there son did Babs and Mr B where badly hurt what their daughter did .
And don't know if it's harder on couples or those of us on our own . But the pain of a children turning against you is bad for all parents . Plus the never knowing why. They make but bullshit reasons but they are lies and in my case realising my son is a cruel coward was the hardest thing . Plus never facing me so I can have my say . Because he knows his wrong .

But the best thing we can do is live our lives to the full and be happy . Yes I still love my son and grandsons but not my daughter in law she killed that love . But I don't like my son he is a stranger but then again I am a stranger to him as I am not the mom he knew.

SparklyGrandma you put an imagine of your cats having a conversation with the birds in your garden . Funny enough had a black and white cat in my garden yesterday only the second time I have seen a cat in the 6 years I have lived here. Most people are dog owners .

Smiles Mr S can turn his hand to anything . Remember when my husband put re did our kitchen in old house cabinets went in fine and worktops . He then started tiling . I had to stop him as something was very wrong . The butcher we used knew a tiler . Who came and said sorry mate these have to come off . Good job we had brought box extra of tiles as my husband was a klutz and knew he would break some and cut himself. He could paint and the garden was always beautiful. Thinking about Mr S remembered in our first house the walls needed replastering after the wood chip paper was removed. We brought an old tin bath to mix it in and he put the first lot on the wall turned round and heard a splat as it fell off the wall . But he got the mix right in the end . Still can see his face and saying don't laugh which if cause I did . Typical of him he didn't bread the ratio of plaster to water.

In business life my husband had everything prefect and was excellent at his job . But at home another matter . If I didn't pack the cases for holiday he would never have clean clothes.

Mr S sounds as if he was good at his job and good at DIY . My daughter married a man like her dad excellent at his job but she refuses to pack for him .

Bridie unfortunately no magic wands for estrangement. I never regret having my son but my daughter always said from her early teens she was the bestest child . Turned out she was right.

Babs glad you and Yogin got together and you saw Joey.

Forgot to say happy birthday Mr S 🥂🎂.

Yogin this is a mammoth ramble . Really must read and respond quicker . I don't know where the times goes .

Morning everyone, hope you all had a good weekend.

Hope you've completed your paperwork Yogin. With so much red tape nowadays, it's not easy being self employed or running a business.

It's been over 7 years since Mr. S. retired and we often say how relieved we are not to be running a business anymore.

It's a blessing to be a couple and have someone with you on a daily basis to share with Whiff, but the downside is that you witness their pain and there have been times when I've found witnessing Mr. S's., harder to deal with than my own.

You're right about Mr. S., the only DIY he can't turn his hand too is plumbing and I know how lucky I am to have such a handy and hard working husband.

We popped into the shop on Friday and the difference is amazing. Still some painting to do and then it will be down to me, 'a mean lean cleaning machine' to do my thing .

We're still not fully over this cold we've had, Mr. S. for 3 weeks and me for two . I had stomach ache on Saturday until mid afternoon and was relieved that it went as we were going out with friends for a meal.

Enjoyed my starter but when my main arrived I couldn't eat it because my stomach ache had returned. It's one of my favourites so I got them to box up the meat and I had it yesterday for my lunch.

Mr. S. now has tooth ache which must be pretty bad because he's cancelled his bowls match this afternoon so he can go to the dentist; not like him at all. Fingers crossed it isn't anything too serious.

Morning all

Sorry to hear you and Mr.S have been ill for so long Smiles.
Mine was 8days and took another week to fully recover, but to normal now. Yes, got my sessions completed from the Webinar on Saturday, so fingers crossed they are pleased with it, and I get my credits to keep my membership going for another year. I keep wondering when I should fully retire but feel my life will be empty without my yoga teaching.

Whiff hope you are over your trauma of seeing your estranged son, looking like your DH. It was my estD birthday yesterday, 36yrs. I've said nothing to my other AC, my DD&GDs are coming round at 10am, as the girls have a teaching training day off and my DD has to work, so I'm looking after them till about 3pm.

I'll see if my S&D can guess what day it was yesterday, I would think my DD would. My son's off for the week, so he is going to surprise them when they knock on the door .

I am new to GN and have been dipping in and out of conversations. You are all quite brave about your estrangements and I can see many people have struggled with this for years. I am 2 years into estrangement with my daughter and I am still really struggling, especially with Christmas looming. All those happy family ads and movies! I don't think I could ever forgive my daughter and not sure we could ever be back in each others lives' in the same way after some of the brutal things she has said to me. But it's not seeing my Grandchildren that is killing me. We were so close. They are 14 and 17 now and I think they have been poisoned against me. I desperately want them to know how much I love them and want to be there for them and want to send them a gift for Christmas. But I think it would antagonise my daughter and make things difficult for them.
Part of me thinks at least my GDs will see I still care and I don't care if my D comes back with more abuse! But the other part of me says to do what she wants and don't send any gifts.

Hello Debbie and a warm welcome to the support thread. We're always glad when someone finds us but sad that that's because they're also living with the pain of estrangement.

So your GC were 12 and 15 when their mother estranged you. They know you and no doubt have fond memories of their GM which wont go away.

I'm sure they know how much you love them as you were so close, so try not to worry that they'll have been poisoned against you, it's more likely that they don't want to antagonise their mum and are doing what she says by not contacting you.

With that in mind, it might be better not to send them anything for Christmas as it could make things difficult for them with their mum.

I think Christmas is the hardest time of the year for those who have been estranged, regardless of how long it's been and 2 years isn't that long.

You're not alone in thinking you could never forgive your D or be back in her life, I feel the same about our ES and we aren't the only ones.

I know you'll find support and friendship here Debbie and as Christmas looms ever closer and we all struggle, we're here for one another and here for you too .

I'm sure you'll get your credits Yogin but understand you'll be a little worried until you do.

Good news from the dentist, they took an x ray and everything's OK. She thinks it's this cold that's lingering that is causing the discomfort.

Horrible day here. Our dogs haven't had a walk this afternoon because it keeps throwing it down and is bitter cold. They wouldn't thank us for taking them out in it despite having their new Christmas jumpers to wear.

Spoiled!!!! of course not

Welcome Debbie, I think you are already quite brave for posting on here, I know it is never easy to post about a grown child turning against the person who loves her most and will always love her despite everything. Is such a feeling of betrayal and hurt as well anger that your own child could say such things and stop you seeing your GCs.
Smileless is right sending anything could just make matters worse. And I also think your GCs must have very fond memories of you and those won’t be forgotten.
Two years might seem like an eternity but is not that long compared to some other estrangements, so there could be hope of a reconciliation but that has to come from your daughter, for now think of your well-being and keep busy with things you enjoy.
Christmas will be over as soon as it has begun, is a time we all just grit our teeth and get on with.
Sending hugs 🤗🌹

Thanks Smileless and Babs for your kind words. It is a relief to be in communication with people who really understand the pain and who offer advice based on the knowledge of how devastating it is to live with this grief. I've had a bad day today but seeing your replies has helped.
I try to talk to my husband, who is not her father, but as he has never had children himself, he cannot possibly understand how I feel. I don't feel quite so alone now. Thankyou.

As Babs has said Debbie it was brave of you to post here. I'm sure we all remember how nervous we were when we did so for the first time, and the relief we felt to be understood by the only ones who can truly understand, other estranged parents.

I'm so sorry you've had a bad day today but knowing that you are not alone has helped. There's always someone here who will respond so there's no need for you to feel alone again .

Hello and welcome Debbie, no one understands estrangement from their own child, whatever age they are, unless you have experienced it. Now it's talked about in the media and on platforms like this. I see my grandson, who is estranged from his parents too, it has affected him. As someone long estranged who tried everything to reach out, I was told she considered her friends family, not to contract her again, you can't have it straighter than that. She left all of us behind, that is unusual and most estrangements heal after about four years, meanwhile come on here as we all support each other, have bad days and good ones, many reconciled come back to check in as well. The main thing is we understand and you are not alone.

Thanks too for your response Allsorts.
If it's ok to do so, could I ask any of you how this affected the wider family?
Every year, my husband and I meet up with my 4 siblings and my nieces and nephews for a Christmas walk. It caused a lot of upset last year about who should go. We went, but that really antagonised my daughter as she then said she couldn't go because of me. Now it's the same again this year only I have already said we won't go so that she can. But my brothers and sisters are put in a difficult situation and the whole thing might now never happen because of the estrangement so it's starting to affect everyone. I have already told my siblings that I still wanted them to keep in contact with my D if they wanted to, but they are finding the situation quite difficult.
It is also affecting my younger daughter badly too.

Yes sadly it affects the whole family. My family suffered a split, with relatives I was close to, including my sister and nephews, turning against us because of our estranged daughter, it was messy and painful. To cut a long story short, 12 years later, and one nervous breakdown, those relatives are now also estranged from our daughter and wanting to make amends. But too much was said and done. And my other daughters who were estranged from their eldest sibling also were similarly treated badly by relatives which I can never forgive.
Your daughter is the eye of the storm, and may be forcing relatives to take sides. Don’t give in to this, you made the right decision to take turns on this Christmas walk, make light of it and say that everyone should enjoy it and you will join them next time. Your estranged daughter’s siblings will find this hard, but you are doing the right thing telling them it is ok to carry on seeing their sister, I insisted the same to my other daughters but they estranged from her before we did and have never changed their minds. Just keep your distance and bide your time, showing that you are not the problem here.
Wishing you all the best 🙏🏾🌹

Thankyou Babs. I'm sorry to hear your family story. It's all so sad and unnecessary - life's too short 😪

Estrangement is like throwing a stone into a still pond Debbie, the ripples reach outward affecting for more than the area where the stone hit.

If your D feels she can't engage in a family activity because you'll be there, then she'll have to miss out wont she. She estranged you and there's no reason why you should sacrifice time with your own siblings because she feels uncomfortable, so I hope you'll tell your brothers and sisters that you will be taking part.

Finding it difficult to be involved with wider family because you've estranged your parent(s) is something that should be thought about by the EAC when they decide to estrange. It's a bit late to think about it afterwards.

Your siblings keeping in touch with their niece and her children really shouldn't be at the expense of their relationship with you which may well be why they're finding this difficult.

It's very hard for the siblings of those who have estranged because they can see how hurt their parents are because of what's happened.

We told our son that we hoped he would stay in touch with his brother and made the decision a few years ago to tell him we didn't want to discuss his brother or our GC. He understood our reasons and I think that it's been to a certain extent a relief for him as much as it's been for us.

We were of course happy for him to talk about it to begin with as this helped him to work through his own issues, but it got to the point where were simply going over the same old ground and reopening wounds we were desperate to heal. That was when we no longer felt able to continue.

Your daughter estranged you. If I were a sibling I would not want her there after hurting you so much.

TBH that's how I'd feel Allsorts especially at the expense of my sibling missing out.

Morning all

Bright & sunny but very cold!

Got my creditsSmiles thanks for asking but not before someone emailed asking where 1&2 sessions are, as they had only received session 3! .

Welcome Debbie you're in the right place for advice and a shoulder to cry/lean on. So sorry to read about your estrangement, such a horrible thing to do to a loving mother.
Each estrangement is different and therefore different things work or not for that person. It does affect the whole family. My estD cut out all the females [that's why we think it was from her H] so my sister & sister-in-law, my DD, my son was cut out when he came back to live with me some years after.

I sent cards, till they moved & then put them in a gift bag with presents from the first Xmas & birthdays. I opened bank acc. for them and put money in for Xmas & birthdays after that. After 6yrs just stopped with everything as I needed to move on and stop grieving for them. Now 13yrs last Nov 16th.

You've already received good advice on here from long time posters but at the end of the day you have to do what's best for you. I really hope you find a way to heal this rift and get back with your D&GC. Best of luck xx

As for meeting up with your siblings for your traditional Xmas walk, you go, you come first and it was your D who did the rotten deed so it's her that should miss out, not you.

Behind as usual lately.
Welcome Debbie it takes courage to admit you are estranged. I still remember how difficult it was for me 5 years ago . Your grandchildren are of an age they can make their own decisions. Yes your daughter may have poisoned them against you . That's something you will never know unless they reach out to you. You mentioned presents . I don't want what happened to me happen to you as it hurt and angered me so much .
In my son's email he sent me dumping me 4 days after my birthday in 2020.he did end by saying he didn't like me but loved me and said give him time. Which I now know was a lie. Last time I saw his 2 eldest they where 4&2 March 2020 . I had seen them every week for 7 months then covid hit .

Saw my son on my birthday had lovely time he even talked about putting paving down to make the garden safer for me . But said with work the family and they were expecting another son end July I would get someone in to do it. Because of covid rules we sat apart and didn't hug or kiss.

As he said give him time I did . August 2020 was his 33rd and second son's 3rd birthday. So I knew the baby would have been born . I sent 3 presents for the baby ,birth card ,birthdays cards and a letter in my sons card with a cheque . Didn't mention the email just hoped mother and baby were well and everyone else. He knew they had found a problem with my heart so told him what was wrong. And explained how the cheque was to be spilt some money for my eldest grandson as I always gave to siblings when new baby arrives.

Next day everything arrived back all unopened the babies presents look like someone I suspect my daughter in law had a hissy fit as they were crushed you could see finger marks in the paper. Luckily they where soft just clothes and cuddly toy.
Had written letter from my son saying he didn't want my manipulation and vindictive behaviour anywhere near him or his family ever again .. Zero contact. Still remember it exactly.

I have never been manipulative or vindictive in my life .

My daughter was here when it arrived with her eldest and pregnant with my youngest grandson. I gave her the presents to donate to a charity that helps new parents .

And that was it . I couldn't let my grandson see nannie hurt but after they left broke down . But as much as what my son and daughter in law did doesn't come close to the heart break I still feel over my husband dieing .

The hardest thing was for me realising my son is a cruel coward as he should have told me to my face .
This thread saved me . You have shown more courage than I did . I found this thread but it took months of sending Smiles PMs before I could post on here and not shut up since 😁.

It's thanks to Smiles,Yogin, Allsorts and other long timers that helped and realise I wasn't alone. Thankfully estranged isn't the taboo subject it was 5 years ago . And for the long timers 13+ years it must have been so hard for them but they are still here helping me and everyone else .

Your daughter like my son made his choice . My son sent my daughter an email as well but she didn't care what I didn't know was they only saw or spoke to eachother when I was with them all. My son not only estranged me but all our side of the family. He has hurt my brother very much and at the time he wanted to go round and in his words sort him out and bitch slap that wife if his . But I told no it was his choice.

When the children were naughty when young there where consequences. It was a very hard decision but I changed my will and made my daughter sole heir and took out both powers of attorney at the same time as it was cheaper . My daughter and son in law are my attorneys I trust my son in law the same as my daughter . Some might say that I am being vindictive doing that . My son wrote vile things about me ,re wrote family history and assumed I took certain actions which I did not .

My lovely son in law said he knew that something had been wrong for years but didn't want to hurt me . And that's the difference my son and daughter in law did everything to hurt me .

Two years ago I decided to stop hoping he would contact me and been happier since making that decision. But I can never forgive or forget what he and my daughter in law have done . I could never trust him again . And we are strangers . He is not the kind loving son I knew but I am not the same mom he knew . I have zero tolerance for bad behaviour.

I know I have bored everyone else with this Debbie but I wanted you to see you are braver than me . It's only 2 years for you and that's so hard . Took me 3 years to let go of hope . So glad I did .

If my son thought to destroy he's sadly wrong . I am living my life to the full like my husband wanted for me. Since I moved here 6 years ago to be closer to the family I have a life after he died I only existed had no life . But the life I lead isn't dependent on the family . I have made a life for myself I am fiercely independent. My daughter laughs I have a better social life than she does.

Posted that incase I lost it as usual ramble on . Better read what everyone else has been up to .

Yogin I hope you managed to get all the forms filled in . Why didn't they have a back up system in place so if anything crash they didn't lose members information. I would have thought all organisations would have back up systems . I know when M&S got attacked they still had everyone's details who had their app I just had to change my password . Sorry you lost information when your laptop crashed . Hope you are still able to do all the classes you did and got your renewal.

I know both my exercise teachers had to have insurances but they don't have to have music licences . My sit fit teacher just does 2 classes on a Monday as she works the rest of the week she's 63 . But had to fill in 2 forms when I joined and have fitness test.
My move it or lose it teacher is part of a large organisation and it's her full time job. She was a physio for 30 years abroad but came back to look after her mom . She's 60 and runs 7 classes a week. She has to go too meeting with management every few months. Had to have training how they do things . More insurances than my sit fit teacher as she represents the move it or lose group . Had to fill in forms to join and fitness test .

But I love both classes and go every week it doesn't matter how much pain I am in or how bad my mobility is I still go . As they are keeping me fit and because we do few of the same exercises but different ones in each class I moved every bit of my body. Plus it's fun and a great social event . We encourage eachother and we can see eachother improve .

Yogin what you do is very important for people to keep doing what they want . The age range in my sit fit class is mid 50's to nearly 90 . Move it or lose it mid 50's and oldest member is 97 this year. She couldn't stand up to do any of the exercises but after a couple of months she does now .

Both teachers do what you no doubt do and that is tell us how much we have improved. But it's always the same with both classes asked if anyone has any injuries . Do warm up and cool down exercises. Plus different moves for some of the exercises if you can't do them but still get the same benefit .

My daughter does combat training one day a week and gym work on the machines another day. Plus any extra classes like yoga with her old teacher and class mates. Because most of the classes she went to where she took her sons until they started school. The mom's have all kept in touch and have girlie nights out her words not mine. Every few months .

My daughter says it lovely going to classes that are child free. She joined a gym to do the classes .

Glad you and Babs got together I know how much you enjoy eachothers company.

Meeting for the third time a GN member who is now a friend . Can't remember which thread we meet on . But she lives in a town not far from me . Having lunch at the same restaurant we went to last time she had never been but my daughter took me for lunch when it was my birthday and I loved . Luckily she did to and we get on like a house on fire .

Funny how meeting people in person they are just like you expected. So far meet 3 from GN and the friend I am meeting been in contact with another GN but never met . She asked if she could tell her about me so said yes . She lives in another town no far from me in the opposite direction. So we are all meeting for lunch at hotel which is easy to get too for us all next month . As usual I booked everything . Once we set dates I book as they both understand my planning and routine life 😁.

Oh dear this is turning into a monster ramble really must read and reply each day . But this week is hectic Monday sit fit , Tuesday move or lose it , yesterday GP,charity shop to take in things I had made for them to sell and the thing for the children's quiz,then went to cafe for breakfast as I had to be out at 7.30am and it was very frosty . After that went to the bank and finally got home 5 hours later frozen 🥶. Today hair cut then tonight Sir Stephen Hough playing Rachmaninov at the Phil , tomorrow lunch with GN friend , Saturday going to the church Christmas fair . Sunday depending on what the boys have on my daughter and boys coming . Think it's only 4 things planned for next week but have to check my calendar.

Smiles I am so glad you have Mr S. If my husband was still alive I know he would have been broken hearted but he would have confronted our son but I don't think it would have changed anything . My daughter in law was jealous of my husband and my son's love for him even though he had been dead a year before they meet. Otherwise why did she write on Reddit FIL died to get away from MIL. That killed any love I had for her.

I hated the pain my in laws caused my husband but he didn't like them but loved them . I hated the pair of them and hated my mother in law for 40 years but still looked after her for 11 years after my husband died because she was still my mother in law and the children's nan . Even though she denied she every had a son or 2 grandchildren. But I made sure everyone knew she lied. And refused to go too their weddings. Both the kids kept in touch with her and visited her once a year. In a way I supposed it was my revenge on how she treated us. But she always put me down as next if kin because she knew I wouldn't abandon her unlike her brother who turned up once she was dead.

You and Mr S have a wonderful life
together in your lovely home can't believe it's a year since you moved plus your dogs . Sorry you are still not recovered but I know up here there are a lot of things going around and it's not just knocking us older ones but younger families as well. The strain of covid going round is knocking people about for 2-3 weeks . Glad I paid for the jab if I get it hopefully I won't be to bad .

Have to finish as I need to get up as early hair appointment. But I will be back you have been warned 🤣🤣🤣