Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Whiff Awful your gifts coming back all screwed up and with fingernail marks!

I sent my estD a book I had read about estrangement, it was a novel, but sooo sad, the grandad sat with a shotgun in the garage after he had made a red buggy type pull-along for his GS that he had been very very close to, he took it to his school but was marched out without giving it to his GS. His wife [the grandma] found him just in time. It was certainly written by someone that understood estrangement. Anyway, I got the book sent by Amazon to their house, came home from work to find it ripped up on my driveway, you could feel the hate emanating from it, without doubt torn up by him [D husband].

Like you Whiff my estD & GC are not in my will.

Whiff they apologised re losing all my docs & cert. and said they have taking measures for it not to happen again
Enjoy your lunch with your GN friends and keep up your fitness classes, so important to do.

I'm going to the theatre with my sister today, Faulty Towers & then a nice meal in an Italian restaurant, so need to get off and get ready

Oh Whiff, I just came up for air, you are such a busy bee can’t believe how much you do everyday. I have every faith that your DH would have read your son the riot act but a part of me is glad he didn’t live to go through the estrangement. Am really glad my parents didn’t live long enough to witness what my eldest daughter did to us.
We only stopped sending things for our GCs last year when a cousin told us she was probably binning it all. Wish we had acted sooner.
@Debbie is so hard when those we love so deeply respond with such hatred and anger.
Be sure not to try to reason with this, keep your distance, ignore her behaviour and get on with your life as best you can. We wasted so much time agonising and trying to find a way of reaching out to our estranged daughter when she was openly abusing us. Time we won’t get back and now with my DH disabled by a stroke and bleeds on the brain I regret that wasted time. As we get older life really is short and none of us know what lurks round the corner. So be sure to prioritise your own well-being and peace of mind.
Take care 🙏🏾🌹

Thanks Whiff for telling your story too. I am so sorry to hear how difficult it has been for you. In fact, thanks to the five of you who have responded to me. It has really helped me to make some decisions.
My story starts two and a half years ago when we were having a kitchen extension. As you can imagine, it is very stressful living in the chaos of building and my husband (not my daughters father) was not coping well and we had a lot of arguments about silly stuff like moving a sideboard! I got stressed too with his moods and I confided in my eldest daughter about it. The biggest mistake I ever made, as despite knowing him for 10 years, she then decided that she didn’t like him. I tried to tell her we were just going through a bad patch but she had made her mind up and accused him of domestic abuse! We spent Christmas together two years ago but again he got a bit stressy about the chaos of my family (2 daughters, partners and 3 grandaughters), which he is not used to as he has no children and only one sister , and made a comment about how he had spent all day clearing up after them all! A bit jokey but also a bad thing to say in front of them all. So that was it, I was given an ultimatum, her or him.
I spent the next year or so trying to tell her that he isn’t as bad as she thinks and I am not being abused but this just antagonised her as she was convinced she was right. She had known him for 10 years before that, was even a bridesmaid at our wedding in 2019 and had spent short breaks with us on holiday. But there was no changing her mind. I told her I know that he is not perfect - indeed a grumpy old man sometimes - and I would not choose between them and couldn’t see why I should have to.
Another mistake I made was regarding my youngest GD when she was suffering from anorexia nervosa. I said a few things by mistake. E.g. she was on the road to recovery and my estD gave me some money to take my two GDs out for lunch. When the pizza arrived, I stupidly said ‘wow that’s a big pizza, shall we share it?’ This apparently was enough to trigger my GD into a melt down at home later. All my fault of course! She may have also cut herself as that’s what she was doing when she got anxious 🙁
A year ago I approached her husband, my son in law, to ask if we could talk privately on the phone about the situation and asked whether we could all go on the family Christmas walk together. He said no, she would not tolerate him on the walk, even though there would have been about 20 of us. I said to him that I thought she was stubborn and had overreacted. Little did I know at the time that she had heard every word of our conversation - my SOL had set me up. She was furious and that made it final and she said I was not to contact them again.
I heard in May that my 17 year old grandaughter had performed in a theatre and I sent her a text to say how proud of her I was. I had also been sending them pocket money. My GD didn’t reply but my daughter did with another abusive, unkind message saying again not to contact them saying we don’t want your money or messages and saying that I had now spoilt what was a lovely memory for them. She accused me of not being there for her girls, which is a lie. The last time I saw them was to take them out for ice cream while their dad took their cat to be put down. We all cried and I truly believe I was there for them, and always have been. I looked after them while their mum went to work, during Covid and when they were off school (a lot). I did cooking, sewing, knitting, crocheting and played with them a lot.
So basically, each time I have reached out, I have been shot down in flames.
My estD was very troubled during her teens and now her own daughters are going through similar troubles. I hear that her marriage is also now in difficulty. I should be the person who supports her!
I will let my estD go on the walk this year, but only so that my GD’s can all be together - I’m not doing it for my estD. I think my wider family will make decisions about how to deal with this the following year.
I won’t send them any Christmas presents or cards. But I will put money in an account for my GDs and hopefully one day, I will be able to give it to them. My eldest GD wants to go to Uni next Sept and I am sure she will be glad of it then - she will be 18 by then too.
As for me. You are all right. I need to make a good life for myself, not that it’s bad, just this cloud hanging over me. I will do more to keep me busy and try new things. Lots of new years resolutions for me!

Yoginimeisje

Whiff they apologised re losing all my docs & cert. and said they have taking measures for it not to happen again
Enjoy your lunch with your GN friends and keep up your fitness classes, so important to do.

I'm going to the theatre with my sister today, Faulty Towers & then a nice meal in an Italian restaurant, so need to get off and get ready

Have a great time Yogi. Should be a hoot 🤩

Yogin yes, she is in charge - Cally that is. They both like to express their feelings so I assume they are happy.

I am thinking about my estDS because it’s this time of year, but I keep it to myself, and try to portray a happy facade.

I don’t think about the estrangement nor him etc, every day any more.

It’s sort of a relief not to, if you my fellow estrangees understand.

Like you Babs, I regret those wasted tears, whilst they cared nothing, Whiff had the right attitude, but we are all different, I tend to overthink and blame myself. I saw her car the other day, recognised number plate, not car, my stomach churned but i didn't dwell on it. Eventually we all come to the point of acceptance and concentrate on those we do have,

Allsorts

Like you Babs, I regret those wasted tears, whilst they cared nothing, Whiff had the right attitude, but we are all different, I tend to overthink and blame myself. I saw her car the other day, recognised number plate, not car, my stomach churned but i didn't dwell on it. Eventually we all come to the point of acceptance and concentrate on those we do have,

Indeed Allsorts. I imagine how upsetting it must have been to see her car, we don’t live anywhere near our estD so won’t ever see her but sometimes when we go into London or other towns/cities I imagine I see her in a crowd and my heart lurches but then it just turns out to be somebody else.
The way I see it is very much like my old mum would say when hearing of a friend or relative suffering ‘is her cross to bear’, am not at all religious but believe we all have our own individual suffering, ours is estrangement, and we have to accommodate that pain and move round it in order to enjoy what time we have left.
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Having read your last post Debbie, I wonder if your D was looking for a reason to turn against your H and you inadvertently gave her one, when you talked about the stress that having a kitchen extension brings.

From what you've said, accusing him of domestic abuse was a huge leap when you were simply letting off steam because of your own frustration and stress.

How did your other D react to your H's comments when you were all together for Christmas? As you haven't said that she was also offended, it does look as if once again, your ED was looking for reasons to complain about him. Not the right thing for him to have said but your ED telling you to choose between him and her is just ridiculous!!!

If she feels so strongly against your H, she doesn't have to see him does she. I appreciate it could be awkward for you to see her and her family without him, but that IMO would be a far better and more mature approach than your D estranging you, and stopping her children from having any contact with their GM.

It must be so difficult trying not to say the wrong thing about food when you're with someone with anorexia and your ED should have realised that your remark about the pizza was said in all innocence, and rather than making a big deal out of it which wouldn't have helped your GD, she should have calmly explained this.

So when you were needed to help out with child care while she was working and the children were ill and cooked, sewed, crocheted and entertained them, your D's dislike of your H wasn't an issue then .

It does look as if your ED's troubled teens are present in her life now, and while I understand your need to be there for her because things don't appear to be going well (something we can all identify with), there's nothing you can do.

FWIW I think your decision not to send cards or gifts is the right one, as is putting money away that hopefully one day you'll be able to give them in person.

We all live with the cloud that estrangement brings and many of us find that with time, its presence from day to day becomes less intrusive but regardless of how long we've been estranged, there are and I guess will always be times when that cloud casts a shadow over us, but we've also learned that eventually it passes and in the meantime we have one another here, to help get us through .

Debbie, don’t keep going over what happened, I know we all do it but is exhausting and exasperating. Your estD is making up a narrative to excuse her behaviour towards you, just ignore it and rise above this, don’t engage with her or she will twist this to suit her own story. I know. My estD was similar. Just get on with your life and show her that her efforts are not hitting home.
Wishing you all the best.
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I understand Sparkly.
The day comes when you don’t wake in tears. Then the day comes when you can face going out. Then the day comes eventually when as you say you find that you have both thought about your estranged AC for a whole day or more and have been getting on with your life.
Is so similar to bereavement.

Correction - not thought about your estranged AC for a whole day or more

Babs03 you are right, it is like bereavement. Even thinking we see them when out somewhere, but it’s not them, is a feature of bereavement.

DebbieJP your experience is well told and I can feel your anguish when reading your words. If you feel like it, you could find something to throw yourself into. When the initial estrangement happened to me, I was working in a very engaging and energy sapping job and I threw myself into that.

Debbie, you have explained your experiences with ED very well and I really think you are doing the right thing. She is behaving very badly towards you, wanting you to choose between her and your husband. As for sil setting you up, that was dreadful. Think if you had ditched your husband for her.
Value yourself please, I feel that in a way I have let my daughter ruin my life as it dominated me for that many years, important ones, it made me physically ill as I questioned everything I might have said or done, now I now for sure it was what's she wanted all along as everyone else was binned too. I had my son, but I don't see him much so I have had to learn I am enough. We would never tolerate such behaviour from a friend or anyone.
Sparkly, I have been bereaved, worst time my dh, miss him every day still. I knew he loved me, estrangement is a living bereavement for a long time and the betrayal that goes with it, the lack of love etc.from your own child is on another level.
It's cruel.

Yogin your daughter must have had what I call a hissy fit when she ripped the book up. Reading she did that as you know weird things pop into my head and I wondered how many paper cuts she got doing it .

This is the first Christmas I haven't looked at Christmas presents and wondered what my 3 grandson's like. It made me smile to realise it . Letting go of hope of ever seeing them is such a relief and have been happier since I made that decision 2 years ago.

Smiles in my experience woman handle things better than men . Whether it's estrangement,grief or health problems. I call it the silver backed gorilla attitude. All the men in my life had and have it . This is just my opinion but men think they have to be brave and think they can sort out everything . My husband loved BBQing even if it rain he put up a tarpaulin and sat under it placing cards with our son while cooking the food while our daughter and me stayed inside I past things through the window. 'Me man I cook with fire ' . Haven't had or been to a BBQ since he died . That was what he loved . I did all the cooking except from when I was 38 I had total hysterectomy week before Christmas so with the help from the children he cooked Christmas lunch and did it until 2002 as 2003 he was to ill dieing from cancer. Christmas lunch that year the children cooked it I only made the gravy and craved the turkey as usual. It was the last meal he ate . Unfortunately he couldn't taste it as the chemo destroyed he's sense of taste . For him that was awful as he loved his food but didn't put weight on . Me only have to look at a cream cake and put weight on😂.

My daughter popped round yesterday to change my bed which she does monthly for me haven't been able to do it for years. But it was lovely just to sit with a cuppa and talk just the 2 of us.

I know I am veering off again but like the GN friend I had lunch with on Friday she was telling another GN member she contacts about meeting me using my username said I write like I am in real life . So she knew we would get on meeting . But when I ramble it's like I am talking to a person or group of people . Hence my veering off subject .

Better read and respond to people's posts. If I have time will tell you about the taxi driver who took me to the Phil on Thursday night. My daughter was crying laughing when I told her.

Yogin so glad you had an apology for losing your documents. Hope you enjoyed Fawlty Towers. Was it like the TV version or had PC took some of the fun out of it ? Looking back at old sitcoms they would never be made today as people are so thin skinned nowadays . I love Mrs Brown's boys and the D'movie Brendan dam forgot his surname made . Lot what he said as Agnus about family was spot on . Loved the fact when they where filming in front of an audience if anybody fluffed their lines they keep going . Which made it even funnier.

Babs glad you stopped sending gifts to your estranged daughter. You have wonderful daughters that love you and Mr B . For all you and Mr B have been through this year and your life has changed so much you are both still fighting together . My husband knew from the start about my problems but he didn't care he wanted me . Even when my health got worse when the children where 4 and 6 months nothing phased him . He just said we alter our way of life to suit what you can do and be a normal family. I was always a hands on mom only thing I couldn't do for years was go out by myself. When we went out it was easier for me to be in a wheelchair chair . I walked with a stick short distances and it wasn't until the children were older I stopped using the wheelchair. Wasn't until I was in it I realised you become invisible and in those days people smoked everywhere.

Your life changed in an instant but the love you have has seen you through the toughest times but you still have things to face now and in the future. But you will face them . None of us know what life has in-store for us . The past has gone you have to live for the now and future .

Why I always behind catching up with everyone I am on my HPX group, on heart forum and several sites on Facebook to try and help people with my experiences. Plus since my diagnosis I have become more disabled militant if I could walk I would have been on marches .

Plus helping people I meet . I always wear my National Disability Card on its lanyard and had no end of people ask me about it . So I tell the and about the Access card . In the bank on Wednesday the teller asked me as her daughter is disabled so explained and she wrote all the information down told her see and her partner can get National Carers card and the lanyard is red . I have the National Disability lanyard but there are different ones including one for hidden disabilities.
I wear mine as it makes me visible if needing help like on trains and I stand out like going to the Phil. But my main reason is if I collapse in the street or shop people can see it's me plus it has my name and date of birth so they know being disabled I have hospital records which they can access. There is madness in my thinking . I am very fiercely independent and hate how much I have changed since January.

Babs I know how hard it is for Mr B with the stroke a bleeds he has changed . I know how much the tumour on my husband's brain but the optical nerve and the other tumours changed him which he hated . Especially the feeling of being weak but he wasn't weak he fought everyday like Mr B does . The children and our daughter still doesn't know he was going blind and couldn't see their features from his last Christmas. He never wanted them to know ,no one knew. I know and others here know how hard it is to carry knowledge and no being able to share it with anyone . But I keep my promises to him too this day and always will.

I tell young and older people do what they want to do now don't wait as you don't know what the future holds .

Babs you and Mr B have your bungalow to look forward to and it will make life so much easier for you both plus work out cheaper to run . After my brother and sister in law stayed with me they knew they had to move to a bungalow. Which they did and love it especially as her MS has gotten worse and it makes life easier for her dad who lives with them . They move from the black country to another county as her mom was in a home with Alzheimer's they planned for him to live with them and move her mom closer to them in another home . But she had a fall and broke her hip and died not long after they went to see her. I have adopted my sister in laws dad as my second dad . He's 93 now but active . But doesn't like going in the car for more than a hour . So holidays have been put on hold for the last 2 years. When my brother and sister in law visits his kids they have friends which keep an eye on him for the day.

Unfortunately my sister in laws sons don't contact her unless she does . Her youngest has Asperger's but her eldest son well won't write what I think of him . When she was seriously ill must 6-7 years ago and my brother had to give up work for 3 months to look after her as she couldn't do anything for herself. He only phoned once a week and never visited her once he lived 90 mins away on the train . So she is basically estranged not through any other reason than they just don't care . Thankfully my nieces and nephew love her very much and don't see her as step mom but a mom . As their own mom is a xxxxxxxx nightmare but they have never given up on her .

Anyway have to get up, move it or lose it this morning. Haven't read this so expect some of it not to make sense 😱😱😱😱🤣🤣🤣

Coping with a child with an eating disorder is awful. I've had it with one of mine, all resolved now but years of anxiety. To be totally honest I could have cheerfully choked my late MIL with her thoughtless comments about food. We did get to a point where we told her quite calmly that we would have to stop seeing her if it didn't stop. It never came to that but I fully understand why that is a big issue for the mother protecting her child.

You are spot on letting go of hope is not terrible as some might think but actually a positive for those clinging painfully to hope for many years when estranged. And it doesn’t mean we let go of hope with regard to other things in our lives. For us our main hope going into the new year will be a healthier and less bumpy ride in our new home going into 2026.
Am not enjoying this time of year, putting the tree and decs up today but my heart isn’t in it, am just doing it for my daughters and the GCs. Will scale it down this year due to DHs ongoing health probs and the fact that one of our daughters and son in law are struggling financially, will give them some money and just buy a bit of something for our GS.
Roll on New Year.
Love to all 🙏🏾❤️

Sorry beginning of that post was a reply to Whiff x

Your comment Worriedwell about the acting disorder issue has made me very sad today. I beat myself up every day about all the things I must have done wrong to deserve estrangement, including any comment I made that was thoughtless about food. I apologised for anything I ever said which caused upset at the time, but it was maybe only one or two comments over a period of a couple of years. They themselves admitted they had accidentally done it and I also know that my estD’s MIL said things too, accidentally. It is so easy to slip up. And there are all the things I did and said that were right that have been forgotten about. Surely they know I would never had intentionally said anything to hurt my GD but I think I have an ADHD brain sometimes and speak before thinking. I hate myself for this.
My youngest daughter is struggling to keep neutral. She is OK with my new husband although she says that he does have a tendency to be a bit stressy at times. At least I can still see her and my 6 year old GD and I am trying very hard to make it a lovely Christmas for them.
Re letting go of hope. I can see that’s where I need to get to, but I’m not there yet.
One thing has crossed my mind about posting on here, is that I wonder if relaying my story actually opens up old wounds for some which just makes us all relive it all.. But thankyou all for your advice and understanding so far.

To be honest with you when things were improving with my DD and that was set back by MILs thoughtless comments it wasn't my MIL I was worrying about. People die from anorexia and I was damn sure I didn't want that to happen to my DD.

What we said to MIL was we didn't want to go non contact but if our daughter's health, potentially her life, depended on it we definitely would.

I don't think including the eating comments was appropriate as you were indeed wrong. Not meaning any harm isn't the issue when the outcome can be so serious.

@Debbie there are many things that open up old wounds but this support thread is a safe space where we can come on and be honest about how we are feeling, nobody is judged or shamed and if a post does cause someone to relive a bad memory that could happen anytime, anywhere. I have personally found this thread to be inspirational and have found friendship from those who get what I am talking about.
I hope you also feel able to share your experiences whether you decide to stay or just dip your toe in every so often.
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Morning all

Whiff I'm sure it was her darling H that ripped the book up, as if you give it a go it's near impossible unless you have very strong hands. She may have read it if he hadn't seen it first.

Your DH sounds like great fun, BBQing in the rain, playing cards .

Really enjoyed Faulty Towers, but not as good as the TV sitcom. Had a lovely Italian meal afterwards, restaurant full as sooo good. My sister came for coffee in the morning, had a great chat & with my son too, talking about genealogy, as he had the week off, Joey loved her, sat on her lap and gave her a kiss! She has 2 cats so hope she was OK with that .

No time to read more as meeting friend in park for coffee at 10am [not our park babs], so back tomorrow to read the rest.

Whiff the play still had the German walk etc.
I remember when I organised my Yoga classes Xmas dinner & dance, it incorporated Faulty Towers actors coming in between courses, I was sitting next to a Germany lady when they did the German sketch

So sorry Allsorts about your bereavement and missing your DH.
Our DAdultEstC loosing their love for us or blocking it out so they allow themselves to be cruel to us is an ongoing wound and I hope I am doing all I can to live my life positively.

I always wanted a garden, books, cats and peace and quiet, in retirement. My two cats have their full winter coats on now and they look shiny with soft glossy healthy deep fur.
Why don’t we grow a winter coat, all glossy and warming?

My apologies for my harsh comment in my last post about finding something to do. Every woman who is estranged finds her own road and way of dealing with it.

Photo of my ready for Christmas living room.

Felt rubbish yesterday morning. Decided to go into a nearby town and do some shopping. Felt better and we even stopped at a local pub on the way home and enjoyed a nice meal and a bottle of wine. Watched tv and went to bed. However, had a shocking night. My mind raced through all the upsets in my lifetime, childhood, children, adult children, arguments literally everything. Not been estranged with my children but was estranged from my mother. Why do I have to go over everything so many times? Heart still racing this morning. My husband says stop thinking about things.