How do I help my sister to stop feeling like a victim?

Thank you all, that's a lot to think about. I don't particularly need defending and I am happy to read through all advice but I appreciate the thought.

I am sorry it took so long to respond, I thought the whole thing had disappeared when I made it.

That's OK InRainbows.

Oh I'm sorry PoppySeadBread that they didn't seek help voluntarily, that must have been upsetting for all involved.

You have heard one side of a situation, not enough for someone that doesnt know the facts to make a diagnosis of narcissism. sisters relationship might never have been particularly close or there's jealousy from one, who knows. It's easy to deal with, just keep your distance for a while, from the niece as well. Things will calm down..Your sister has got to be upset not speaking to her daughter so feelings are high.

Why should she keep her distance from the niece? Just because her sister is acting like a child, unable to regulate her emotions?

That would be unfair on her niece, especially as she is saying anything about the situation.

Awkward when families fall out. I’ve had experience of this with my sister and exactly the same process I was so understanding at first but found after a year it wore me down. Every meeting was the same and I had to back off for my sanity.

I'm growing concerned that I must have missed something, that my niece has been through things I was not aware of. My ideas of support do not suit my sister but I love her and want to help if I can. I am so grateful to have somewhere I can talk this through. It is confusing. My sister and I are very different but now I am unsure if those differences are more than just different personalities.

Harris27

Awkward when families fall out. I’ve had experience of this with my sister and exactly the same process I was so understanding at first but found after a year it wore me down. Every meeting was the same and I had to back off for my sanity.

This is how I feel and almost as if she feels I am at fault somehow for not being estranged by my niece if that makes sense.

I wish people wouldn't attempt to diagnose strangers with mental issues based on second or third hand information. Especially people with no training in the subject.

Oh! And it's nearly always a woman being given this fauxgnosis. "Meghan Markle/ Kate Middleton/ Lady Gaga/ That woman in that Marvel Movie/ my MIL/my DIL/my SisIL."

Just because general you see a trait in common with some-one know doesn't make it a general trait in all members in that peer-group.

It's not really an attempt when the unique behavior being described is exactly how a narcissist would behave and think.

Also gender doesn't mean anything here. If a man was described behaving the same way I would also think they are narcissistic.

How would you describe the sister's sustained problematic and unreasonable behavior?

PoppySeadBread

It's not really an attempt when the unique behavior being described is exactly how a narcissist would behave and think.

Also gender doesn't mean anything here. If a man was described behaving the same way I would also think they are narcissistic.

How would you describe the sister's sustained problematic and unreasonable behavior?

And just how do you, PoppySeadBread, know this? You are saying some-one you don't know personally is displaying "It's not really an attempt when the unique behavior being described is exactly how a narcissist would behave and think."

Neither you nor I know either woman but in my ...counts on fingers.. over forty years of being on Al Gore's Internet I know people latch onto the first post as being the "Truth".

Also gender doesn't mean anything here. If a man was described behaving the same way I would also think they are narcissistic.

Maybe you would but in the North American culture I live in women are frequently cudgeled into little boxes where men are allowed to be able to display anti-social behaviours that are not extended to women.

How would you describe the sister's sustained problematic and unreasonable behavior?

Again, neither of us have a full understanding of these behaviours and unless the OP's sister and niece want to dump the full "goodness knows how many years this has being going on for", we are limited to a second person view of the whole situation.

Throwing out unsubstantiated mental diagnosis isn't helpful for the OP, her sister or her niece.

It's not really productive to question the veracity of the original poster, especially when her situation gives her very little reason to lie about it.

I'm sorry you're seeing a pattern of women being labelled as narcissists, but your culture and viewpoint are irrelevant in this thread.

You can speak for yourself, not having a full understanding of this behavior, but I'm pretty experienced and well-read on this subject.

It's not an unsubstantial mental diagnosis. At the beginning of your post, you defended your claim by saying that I can't be sure the original poster is being honest. Well assuming the poster isn't lying, the behavior she described is very narcissistic.

And it actually would be very helpful for the OP and niece to know about it. It could save them a lot of time, energy and heartache knowing that the sister has a severe (narcissistic) personality disorder that is completely resistant to change.

It's not helpful for the sister, but nothing but absolute subservience would be helpful to her; since there really is no cure for narcissism. Maybe a near-death experience or taking hallucinogenic drugs that rewire the way you think, but even those are unlikely to fix her personality.

PSD I think you are projecting your feelings onto poster. Your responses are extremely biased. You are not able to diagnose narsism from what one person says.

Allsorts

PSD I think you are projecting your feelings onto poster. Your responses are extremely biased. You are not able to diagnose narsism from what one person says.

I don't see why not, but ok whatever.

InRainbows, I don't know if your sister has narcissism or not. I can't possibly know that at all!

But I highly recommend you treat her like you would treat a narcissist, because they both behave and think exactly the same way!

P.S. When a child estranges their parents, it's more often than not because the parents are too emotionally immature, which results in them behaving like narcissists.

Not caring how other's feel, refusing to change or admit fault, trying to control things they have no business controlling. All of those traits are hallmarks of a narcissist and make them prime candidates for estrangement (which her sister is in-fact currently dealing with).

Dear InRainbows, I think it's interesting that you now think your niece may have suffered a lot due to your sister's behaviour. All the more reason you remain steady in your support of her.
Does your sister have friends or colleagues who have distanced from her that you know of?

A problem between family members just doesn't affect them does it Harris, there are more often than not repercussions for everyone in the family.

Try not to be concerned whether the support you're currently providing 'suits' your sister InRainbows. What matters is that you are trying to support her and that may be important for your niece too, knowing that her mum's sister is there for her.

You can't fix this and I'm wondering if you feel that you should be able too which is making this all the more stressful. Your niece may well have been through things you're not aware of but there's nothing you can do about that now, apart from continuing to be there for your niece if she chooses to talk about it.

Throwing out unsubstantiated mental diagnosis isn't helpful for the OP, her sister, or her niece I agree Beautyschooldropout.

As the OP hasn't said anything about narcissism when talking about her sister and her niece, it would IMO be more appropriate for you to start a thread on the subject PoppySeadBread, rather than what appears to be an attempt to dominate this thread with your experience of, and opinions of narcissism.

^I highly recommend you treat her like you would treat a narcissist^; how would you treat a narcissist?

A brief 'guide' includes remaining calm, staying neutral, avoiding arguments, setting clear boundaries and not trying to change them and based on what the OP has told us, this is appears to be what she's doing. It's the right approach with anyone who is difficult to engage with regardless of whether or not they're a narcissist.

Smileless2012
PoppyseadBread is offering advice based on well researched information.
I'm not sure why you're being critical of her helpful posts.
You are seeing it from a different angle as your son has estranged you.
As suggested before, why not start your own thread about your particular situation?

I thought we didnt like telling posters how/where to post.

IMO her posts aren't helpful because her entire perspective is based on projecting her experience onto others.

My personal experience is irrelevant MarieElla and the reason I see it from a different angle is because I'm able to be dispassionate.

I do not 'blame' all those who estrange because we've been estranged unlike those who have a tendency to blame all EP's and label them as toxic, abusive and or narcissist.

I have no need or desire to start my own thread on estrangement and have never needed too in the 13 years I've been posting here. Having made your suggestion twice now, there's no need to make it again.

OK Smileless2012 . I won't suit again.
But it's interesting you don't want to start a thread about your own experience yet post on others?
Is it because you may have to face up to your role in the estrangement .and have to take on board others' opinions.

Suggest it

No not at all MarieElla. It was a thread started by an estranged mother that brought me to GN in the first place and due to the longevity and success of the support thread, which resulted in other threads on the topic being started, the topic of estrangement was given it's own section here on GN.

My experience is well documented as are the opinions of many who've commentated on it. We had no 'role' in our estrangement; it was not of our making and out of our control.

I am always willing to 'take on board' the opinions of others about our experience and the experiences of others but wont necessarily agree with them. I have and will always have an issue of those who project their experiences onto others, especially when that involves labelling people they've never met as narcissistic.

InRainbows

This is such a heartbreaking situation for all involved. I don’t know what the answer is or what to do for the best but I do know that the pain of being estranged by your adult child is so immense that it can preoccupy your thoughts and life and make it hard to think and function; if your sister was able to respond to other people’s needs and maintain largely healthy relationships prior to the estrangement then she will be able to again, but it will take time; in time she may need counselling but only when she is ready, and keeping on suggesting it may push her away or distress her further; her need for someone to be on her side is understandable but taking sides won’t help anyone in the long run.

The estrangement forums can be a double edged sword and may not help her at this point while she is still so raw. The attacks on estranged parents can be very vicious and harmful, but there can also be wonderful sensitive mature contributions for example lovethepuppies posts on this forum.

I think what you’re doing is loving and supportive. Maintaining your relationship with your niece without pressuring her or expecting her to discuss the estrangement, while also supporting your sister.

I don’t know if your sister is at the point where she can hear that it would be good for the two of you to have some time together free of any talk of the estrangement?

She is lucky to have you and I wish you all well 💐

Ok.
You had 'no role' in the estrangement and I will leave it at that.

Well there's no point in pursuing it MarieElla.

What a lovely post WishingOnaStar .