Feels like estrangement

Due to the nature of relationships, more than one perspective matters. You may consider the comment to be innocent and small, but the other party may have it stuck on their mind forever and you don't get to decide how they should feel about it.

There are a lot more troubling things about your way of thinking that I don't care to get into but at least you managed to say one wise thing, not everyone should be a parent.

It's good you're in counselling.
Would your children be open to attending family therapy?

Goodness me Careen145! Have a heart! The OP has bravely offered thoughts that are troubling her...wouldnt it be kinder to try to empathise with her sadness and disappointment?

Personally I cannot see anything that she has written which doesnt justify her feelings. She brought up three children alone and is now feeling cast aside and neglected for no justifiable reason.

Shes making a positive attempt to create a meaningful life for herself. Why not a word or two of encouragement rather than barely veiled criticisms.

Been there and thankfully come out of it….well, hopefully.
The offending comment, was so innocuous (in my opinion) that I can’t remember what it was. I apologised not once, but a million times and finally my DS gave in.
It was so traumatic that I honestly cannot remember what brought it on.
It’s all so sad, isn’t it ?

I support Careen415's comment - the first paragraph she wrote.

The positive side of your AC telling you is that you know what the issue is and a solution can be implemented.

Well it may not only be the OP who'll be relieved to know that you don't care to get into anything else that she's had the courage to share Careen: I know I am.

I'm always extremely suspicious of such an unpleasant response from someone whose never posted on GN before specki4eyes and hope Gmax ignores it.

It is sad when we must accept that the relationship we have with AC isn't what we thought it would be Gmax and FWIW I think you're doing the right thing letting go of your hopes and dreams and doing what you can to live your best life.

I'm glad that counselling has enabled you to build your self esteem because that takes a real battering when your AC treat you this way.

Stay strong and keep doing what you're doing .

It sounds like you are reaching a place of acceptance. I always felt the hardest part of estrangement was accepting, either accepting that the other person won't change or accepting that estrangement is the right choice.

You're absolutely correct Beescrete, reaching that place of acceptance is the hardest part of estrangement.

Careen145

Due to the nature of relationships, more than one perspective matters. You may consider the comment to be innocent and small, but the other party may have it stuck on their mind forever and you don't get to decide how they should feel about it.

There are a lot more troubling things about your way of thinking that I don't care to get into but at least you managed to say one wise thing, not everyone should be a parent.

I think that’s incredibly harsh and a little unfair.

Smileless2012

Well it may not only be the OP who'll be relieved to know that you don't care to get into anything else that she's had the courage to share Careen: I know I am.

I'm always extremely suspicious of such an unpleasant response from someone whose never posted on GN before specki4eyes and hope Gmax ignores it.

It is sad when we must accept that the relationship we have with AC isn't what we thought it would be Gmax and FWIW I think you're doing the right thing letting go of your hopes and dreams and doing what you can to live your best life.

I'm glad that counselling has enabled you to build your self esteem because that takes a real battering when your AC treat you this way.

Stay strong and keep doing what you're doing .

I completely agree with you.

Whilst Careen may feel she’s “giving good advice” her comments are heartless and she should perhaps take a little of her own advice.

If you feel estrangement is the better path for your wellbeing than keep on that road. If you desire to reconcile, I suspect your son's will want you to listen to and acknowledge things that hurt them even if you think they are insignificant. Neither choice is easy.

Gmax feels like she's estranged because there's so little contact.

Is something said that gets on your nerves the same as finding what's said hurtful? I don't think it is.

These sorts of situations are becoming more common. I think the cause is not always due to influence or manipulation from their partners or partner's family. Think about the role social media plays, and the ways in which hostile actors can use social media to destabilise a society, for instance. What better way to wage war on a nation than to create rifts within; to break family bonds.
Or it could be that a lot of younger people are disenchanted with the world in general because of the chaos that has been brought by greedy megalomaniacs and that disenchantment is projected onto their own parents.

Anyway, whatever the cause, simply saying irritating things (without meaning to) is no excuse for your AC to ignore you. Heck, I cannot think of a single person who hasn't irritated me at some point! It's just part of life.

You are doing all the right things gmax.
Although not estranged, my AC will rarely contact me unless he wants something. He's not rude but it's like he fails to see me as an individual. It's disappointing but I very quickly learned to not let it upset me but to simply accept that's the way it is for now.

specki4eyes

Goodness me Careen145! Have a heart! The OP has bravely offered thoughts that are troubling her...wouldnt it be kinder to try to empathise with her sadness and disappointment?

Personally I cannot see anything that she has written which doesnt justify her feelings. She brought up three children alone and is now feeling cast aside and neglected for no justifiable reason.

Shes making a positive attempt to create a meaningful life for herself. Why not a word or two of encouragement rather than barely veiled criticisms.

Thank you S4E. I presume that Careen145 is an AC on here trolling.

crazyH

Been there and thankfully come out of it….well, hopefully.
The offending comment, was so innocuous (in my opinion) that I can’t remember what it was. I apologised not once, but a million times and finally my DS gave in.
It was so traumatic that I honestly cannot remember what brought it on.
It’s all so sad, isn’t it ?

Sending you hugs

Smileless-- thanks for the flowers and words.
Beescrete & others -- thanks, yes, acceptance is what I strive for.
Gillymo-- love love what you wrote. You are right re social media. I agree that our AC fail to see us as individuals.

There was more said in that convo than DS giving me an example of how I annoyed him last time I saw him. Some details must stay private because they're too personal (could be identified). Let's just say, what he said broke my heart. I mended it with help from my counselor. Still, my heart is fractured. I know for sure I'm not perfect, but I love strongly and deeply and respect all within my sphere. I just don't feel the respect coming back to me from AC.

Thanks again everyone. It helped to share my feelings here, and to read the replies.

Gmax please take no notice of that very harsh post made by
Careen they are either a troll or a new poster with an axe to grind. I totally understand your hurt and disappointment. We sacrifice so much bringing our children up (I too was left with three and no money)
You are doing the right things going to counselling and living as fulfilling a life as you can My only advice would be never lose touch with them even if it’s twice a year Remember most boys are not as wonderful at keeping in touch Look after yourself and keep an open mind and heart
💐

I think you’ve nailed it in terms of self-care and not beating yourself up if you truly know in your heart you have been good mother overall. Yoga and counselling are wonderful things one can do for themselves during the best and worst of times alike. The fact that you have the self-awareness to take those steps is imo proof that you are not close to toxic. Toxic people don’t work on themselves. I wouldn’t put too much stock in such internet buzzwords as ‘toxic’.

I must caution against blaming their spouses. A selfish or self-centered person isn’t influenced into becoming that. That’s a personality trait. Also, just because they are male doesn’t mean they don’t have agency. As mothers we don’t simply pass them from being our responsibility to being another woman’s responsibility. They are responsible for themselves and their own choices. It’s not “mummy raised you well and now this other woman has spoiled the good work I did”. Don’t fall into that trap. It never ends well and it prevents you from fully holding them accountable. I do understand that it must be very hard to accept the child you raised grew up to be so callous and selfish, but it’s neither your fault or anyone else’s but theirs. We raise them as children but the rest is up to them. The way we nurture them goes only so far when it comes to their nature. Nature often wins in adulthood.

My advice is to keep doing what you are doing. You did your best and all you can do is keep reminding yourself of that. In your case, if your sons become parents to adults one day they will see that it is not so easy to be the “perfect” parent. Right now they don’t quite understand that no matter how harmonious the relationship, everyone will have their gripes about their parents and upbringing in some small ways. They won’t be perfect parents either. Most people grow and mature enough to not ruminate on the small things. They should hope their children are more forgiving than they are. I hope they realize the realities and imperfection of parenthood while you are still here with open arms.

Careen145

Due to the nature of relationships, more than one perspective matters. You may consider the comment to be innocent and small, but the other party may have it stuck on their mind forever and you don't get to decide how they should feel about it.

There are a lot more troubling things about your way of thinking that I don't care to get into but at least you managed to say one wise thing, not everyone should be a parent.

If I have a comment my Mum's made, recently or distant past, "stuck in my mind", I do my utmost to un-stick it. Not because I want to forgive her for saying it, but because it's not healthy for me personally to harp on things & carry resentment. It's my mind & if a small comment is troubling me, I'll feel better if I let it go.

Don't think that's the same as "bottling up" major traumas like abuse or ongoing bullying - those I would deal with otherwise.

In a family, everyone's always going to say something that can be taken the wrong way at some time over the years - unless they don't talk to each other very much.

Careen145

Due to the nature of relationships, more than one perspective matters. You may consider the comment to be innocent and small, but the other party may have it stuck on their mind forever and you don't get to decide how they should feel about it.

There are a lot more troubling things about your way of thinking that I don't care to get into but at least you managed to say one wise thing, not everyone should be a parent.

I think the second half of your comment was quite cruel without knowing much at all about the OP or her sons. You read one post and took such a dramatic leap in assumption that it just seems ridiculous.

I don’t disagree with your perspective on multiple perspectives mattering at all. But do you not believe in giving some grace to family? Aren’t we all imperfect? Do we not all misstep? Shouldn’t forgiveness have some room here? Where is the wiggle room in your outlook when it comes to our parents, siblings, grandparents etc? With the exception of truly pernicious, abusive behaviour, family should not be so easily discarded. Do you really want to live in a world where family can cast each other aside so easily?

@careen145
Are you here because you want to help people heal their relationships?
"but at least you managed to say one wise thing, not everyone should be a parent."
If you genuinely cared about the ECs in this relationship you would offer constructive advice instead of wanton cruelty.

I actually agree with Careen45 first paragraph, albeit that it was worded a little harshly. OP, I suspect that you and your DS viewed the ‘completely innocuous’ comment differently to each other. The trick, I believe, is to be able to put yourself in the other person’s place & see how it would have been received, rather than given.

Oh I think that happens all too often. One person feels a comment differently to the other. I think the best course of action as the person who made the comment is to understand the reaction and treat it as serious and worth apologising for.

Most people, including myself, see parents that aren't in contact with their children as a huge, glaring, red flag.

They rightfully wonder how awful of a human they have to be that even their own children want absolutely nothing to do with them.

They may be that 1 in million case where they live in a Disney film with an evil spouse who bewitched their child, or a big rock fell on their child's head and completely changed them as a person. But otherwise, it's safe to assume that their children willingly chose to become orphans for a very, very good reason.