Feels like estrangement

Yawning due to the boredom of the repetitiveness of some of the posts on this forum today.

NoMoreNarcan

Most people, including myself, see parents that aren't in contact with their children as a huge, glaring, red flag.

They rightfully wonder how awful of a human they have to be that even their own children want absolutely nothing to do with them.

They may be that 1 in million case where they live in a Disney film with an evil spouse who bewitched their child, or a big rock fell on their child's head and completely changed them as a person. But otherwise, it's safe to assume that their children willingly chose to become orphans for a very, very good reason.

Tread carefully - your post, especially your final paragraph, ventures into very sensitive territory indeed.

It’s never safe to assume.

NoMoreNarcan

Most people, including myself, see parents that aren't in contact with their children as a huge, glaring, red flag.

They rightfully wonder how awful of a human they have to be that even their own children want absolutely nothing to do with them.

They may be that 1 in million case where they live in a Disney film with an evil spouse who bewitched their child, or a big rock fell on their child's head and completely changed them as a person. But otherwise, it's safe to assume that their children willingly chose to become orphans for a very, very good reason.

@NoMoreNarcan I understand and somewhat agree with this but I think who participates in a forum makes a big difference. While I've never seen stats for why children estrange, based on life experience I would expect the top reasons are:
Parental addiction/alcoholism, estrangement after divorce or custody struggles and extreme abuse. When it comes to EPs in forums, the only ones who are likely to contribute are the divorce/custody cases. Nobody is coming on here to complaint that their kids don't want to be around them because they are high and drunk all the time. The EPs here are a highly selected group. The ACs however are often the children of addiction or extreme abuse.

I venture to say that most (not all) EPs on here have struggled with their ACs because of mismatched expectations and boundaries, offering (maybe in good faith) uninvited criticism and advice, inability to form a good relationship with in law parent.

The EP's here are not a highly selected group they're simply EP's who've found the estrangement forum here on GN and chose to participate.

I don't know what you mean by referring to us this way Beescrete, perhaps you could explain.

You wont see EAC coming on here and saying that the parents they estranged are decent, kind and loving but they estranged them anyway because their husband/wife/partner didn't want them around; or because they wouldn't do exactly what they wanted regarding child care or financial support but these are sometimes the reasons why they do estrange.

Careen145

Due to the nature of relationships, more than one perspective matters. You may consider the comment to be innocent and small, but the other party may have it stuck on their mind forever and you don't get to decide how they should feel about it.

There are a lot more troubling things about your way of thinking that I don't care to get into but at least you managed to say one wise thing, not everyone should be a parent.

Dear me! 🙄

Careen145

Due to the nature of relationships, more than one perspective matters. You may consider the comment to be innocent and small, but the other party may have it stuck on their mind forever and you don't get to decide how they should feel about it.

There are a lot more troubling things about your way of thinking that I don't care to get into but at least you managed to say one wise thing, not everyone should be a parent.

HOW you say things makes the difference between something being helpful/thought provoking/"heard" or being provocative and unpleasant.

A good difference to learn tounderstand and to deliver! !

Careen that wasn’t helpful at all.

BlueBelle -- good advice, "never lose touch."
I don't plan to do that.

I do not feel the need to reply to every single analysis of what I said in OP. No more details to be given. Like the title said, it "feels like estrangement" sometimes. I'm working thru my hurt, but mainly, I try to let go of expectations or hopes for more. Life isn't always fair. I won't be back to this thread. Thus, anyone else can start their own thread if they have there own topic. I really appreciate the compassionate commenters. Xo

When relationships don't work out, I think (regardless of the circumstances) it's important to reflect on how we have contributed to the situation. Sometimes it's just something as simple as generational differences and, what was acceptable to say/do years ago just isn't now. Times have changed. If it's both your sons, I hope your counsellor is working through this with you - not just your self esteem but also your objective self reflection

Just wanted to wish you well Gmax. I hope that letting go of expectations or hopes for more helps; it did for us .

Gmax3 I honestly know that I still would have taken the best care of them under hard circumstances. Parenthood isn't for everyone. My path was harder than most. I did my best. I'm just trying to live my best life.

Well done living your best life and letting go of expectations.

Smileless2012

The EP's here are not a highly selected group they're simply EP's who've found the estrangement forum here on GN and chose to participate.

I don't know what you mean by referring to us this way Beescrete, perhaps you could explain.

You wont see EAC coming on here and saying that the parents they estranged are decent, kind and loving but they estranged them anyway because their husband/wife/partner didn't want them around; or because they wouldn't do exactly what they wanted regarding child care or financial support but these are sometimes the reasons why they do estrange.

What I mean by this is many EPs are estranged for outright abuse and neglect and those EPs are not coming to a forum. We all know extreme child abuse and neglect exist but those are highly dysfunctional people who won't be logging onto to gransnet. Do you think the parent who beats there child comes here? I don't think so. I think the EPs on gransnet are likely to be a different group than the average EP

I do think the child who got beat might log on, and that creates the disconnect. ECs who have come from terribly abusive backgrounds with EPs who come from failures of communication, mismatched expectations, in law conflicts, and lack of boundaries.

Sorry to hear this, Gmax3. Anybody would be hurt to feel unwanted by close family members.

Smileless2012

Yawning due to the boredom of the repetitiveness of some of the posts on this forum today.

Confused by this post? You usually have care and feedback to offer

As an EAC, I felt more like GetTheBelt earlier on, but through the years my anger has mellowed to sadness.

Human relationships are hard and many estrangements are not as clear cut as obvious, serious abuse. When you consider that even marriages, when you choose your partner as an adult, have a 50% failure rate. And I know plenty of really nice people who have been left by their partner.

It has occurred to me too that none of us are immune. I have close connections with my grown kids and as far as I'm aware, they feel the same. I don't think they'd ever estrange from me and I don't think I've done anything to warrant it. But still, you can never say for sure what another person might decide to do.

I don't know what goes on or went on in other people's lives. So I try to stick with compassion. I'm pretty sure we're all in pain and wish things were different.

GetTheBelt, no one should be treated as you were, Its not OK. Its controlling and abuse from the one person who should have protected you.. Please don't let this define you, be the person you want to be. You have estranged from your abusive mother, you cannot get your childhood back and start again but you can let it go and be proud of who you are.
A smack shuts you up, to listen and understand takes time, some people just want you quiet.

My post that you referred too @ 00.40 was in response to an offensive one that was removed by GNHQ as was the poster who made it Beescrete.

Do you think the parent who beats their child comes here? Of course not, do you think as I said in my post that the AC who estranged "decent, kind and loving parents" would come here and be honest about why they estranged? Of course not.

Personally, I don't agree with statements like the average EP anymore than I'd agree with referring to the average EAC.

Failures of communication, mismatched expectations, in law conflicts and lack of boundaries are not just issues AC can have with their parents, they're issues parents can have with their AC and/or their partners.

Human relationships are hard and many estrangements are not as clear cut as obvious, serious abuse indeed sweetpotatopie, and not all are because of how the one estranged behaved, sometimes it's the one estranging whose at fault.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Posted on wrong thread.
Reported.
Sorry!

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Getbelt I am deeply sorry to read what you have suffered in life. There are so many kinds of abuse and very rarely does any abuser want anyone to know who they are. I am grappling myself to understand that idea, that not only can people hurt others but also then go to great lengths to have others believe they did not. To the point they even make themselves the victim of the situation and look for support as a victim. It is no wonder so many so many struggle to understand, myself included.

Smileless2012

My post that you referred too @ 00.40 was in response to an offensive one that was removed by GNHQ as was the poster who made it Beescrete.

Do you think the parent who beats their child comes here? Of course not, do you think as I said in my post that the AC who estranged "decent, kind and loving parents" would come here and be honest about why they estranged? Of course not.

Personally, I don't agree with statements like the average EP anymore than I'd agree with referring to the average EAC.

Failures of communication, mismatched expectations, in law conflicts and lack of boundaries are not just issues AC can have with their parents, they're issues parents can have with their AC and/or their partners.

I agree Smiless and I apologize that my post didn't acknowledge that EPs also experience extreme abuse. I will still say that I think the worst abusers on either side aren't coming to this forum so the people they have abused are often left thinking "the other side" here is being dishonest and downplaying the truth.