Stop blaming Pensioners

Some of the advantages we had have now gone.
Working for a bank my DH had a reduced rate mortgage and a company car. My DM who helped us with school fees had a tax reduction.
Councils provided meals on wheels.
You could get an appointment with the doctor the same day.
We had free school milk.
Local authorities did mortgages.
But other things are so much better.
But yes the age balance of society is causing a drag on the economy hence the rise in the pension start.
We do need to think seriously about making the latter years as productive and pleasant as possible.
Must look up Esther Rantzen....

loopyloo But yes the age balance of society is causing a drag on the economy hence the rise in the pension start.

I'd imagine my husband is not alone in always assuming business owners won't ever really retire. I never thought about people retiring - the men in my family don't/didn't. Dad never really retired, my brother moved home from NYC, but it wasn't long before he was back working. Maybe work needs to be more enjoyable?

Who exactly is suggesting that we older people in paid for properties should move out of them? I’m a bit puzzled by that.

maddyone

Who exactly is suggesting that we older people in paid for properties should move out of them? I’m a bit puzzled by that.

It was Angus Hanton of the Intergenerational Foundation.

If he finds me a desirable bungalow with a sensible layout in a good location I might consider it. 🙂

There are often threads on MN saying that 'boomers' are selfish for living in larger houses when families can't afford them. The hatred is obvious and not pleasant to read.

Norah

loopyloo But yes the age balance of society is causing a drag on the economy hence the rise in the pension start.

I'd imagine my husband is not alone in always assuming business owners won't ever really retire. I never thought about people retiring - the men in my family don't/didn't. Dad never really retired, my brother moved home from NYC, but it wasn't long before he was back working. Maybe work needs to be more enjoyable?

I'm not sure what difference it would make if people didn't retire, unless they never drew a pension.

I wouldn't want to live in a society where people were expected to work until they dropped - a few years to relax and enjoy the fruits of your labours after a lifetime of work isn't much to ask, IMO. Many couples hardly see one another when both are working, and retirement is a chance to spend some time together.

Also, there is a huge difference between jobs. Some people get a lot of satisfaction and status from their work, but others do it because they have to, and get few rewards beyond a pay packet. I don't think one size fits all, really.

Doodledog

There are often threads on MN saying that 'boomers' are selfish for living in larger houses when families can't afford them. The hatred is obvious and not pleasant to read.

We're ok, then, not being boomers 🙂

It is resentment being stirred up by some groups and it isn't pleasant.

Thanks Callistemon, I should have thought he’d be better off minding his own business. Where I live (in the house we bought and paid for) is absolutely none of his business at all. Stirring up generational hatred is a particularly unpleasant thing to do. I don’t read Mumsnet, but others on here do, and it appears from what they say, that some younger people are becoming extremely stirred up by this. The Guardian doesn’t help either, I’ve read articles in The Guardian that attempt to stir up inter generational discord too.

Oh, I agree (and I am a 'boomer' ). It's horrible to read, and I don't think it is remotely justified. Nor do I think that the moaners would really like to live in a society with the level of social control required to boot people out of their own houses at a pre-determined age. Presumably the same would apply after relationship breakdowns and when children leave for university and vacate their bedrooms?

It's not thought through at all.

Doodledog

Oh, I agree (and I am a 'boomer' ). It's horrible to read, and I don't think it is remotely justified. Nor do I think that the moaners would really like to live in a society with the level of social control required to boot people out of their own houses at a pre-determined age. Presumably the same would apply after relationship breakdowns and when children leave for university and vacate their bedrooms?

It's not thought through at all.

Most posters on Mumsnet are lovely though, and the extremists get put in their place quite regularly - I feel sorry for them, because they must be so unhappy in their lives to want to lash out at everybody else. It’s not just older people who cop it either, it’s men, parents, siblings, teachers, doctors, other parents - you name it, and they are in there with a knife.

True, Casdon. I'm definitely not tarring all MNers with the same brush. I'm one of them, for a start .

Doodledog

Norah

loopyloo But yes the age balance of society is causing a drag on the economy hence the rise in the pension start.

I'd imagine my husband is not alone in always assuming business owners won't ever really retire. I never thought about people retiring - the men in my family don't/didn't. Dad never really retired, my brother moved home from NYC, but it wasn't long before he was back working. Maybe work needs to be more enjoyable?

I'm not sure what difference it would make if people didn't retire, unless they never drew a pension.

I wouldn't want to live in a society where people were expected to work until they dropped - a few years to relax and enjoy the fruits of your labours after a lifetime of work isn't much to ask, IMO. Many couples hardly see one another when both are working, and retirement is a chance to spend some time together.

Also, there is a huge difference between jobs. Some people get a lot of satisfaction and status from their work, but others do it because they have to, and get few rewards beyond a pay packet. I don't think one size fits all, really.

It could make a difference if people retired later. People live longer, the pension system might be able to adjust to more people, if those people paid contributions longer and began receiving pensions later.

Yes, but that would mean people working till they drop. There has to be a way for people to take some time off before they die, surely?

I remember going on a guided tour in SE Asia. Part of it was in a rickshaw, and the main guide said that we should not avoid choosing the older men who pulled them, as there was no pension, and if they didn't work they didn't eat.

Is that the sort of thing we should aim for? As I say, for some, working is enjoyable, and these days it needn't be physically onerous, but others really do need to rest. Apart from the humane aspects of making people do heavy lifting with arthritis or lumbago, there is the unavoidable fact that many people do get 'past it' in all areas of work. Even hi-tech work that only involves picking up a mouse or pen can be mentally challenging and stressful as we age.

Doodledog

Yes, but that would mean people working till they drop. There has to be a way for people to take some time off before they die, surely?

I remember going on a guided tour in SE Asia. Part of it was in a rickshaw, and the main guide said that we should not avoid choosing the older men who pulled them, as there was no pension, and if they didn't work they didn't eat.

Is that the sort of thing we should aim for? As I say, for some, working is enjoyable, and these days it needn't be physically onerous, but others really do need to rest. Apart from the humane aspects of making people do heavy lifting with arthritis or lumbago, there is the unavoidable fact that many people do get 'past it' in all areas of work. Even hi-tech work that only involves picking up a mouse or pen can be mentally challenging and stressful as we age.

No, not working until they drop. Yes, have some time off before they die.

If people merely worked a few more years, to accommodate the pension funding issues 'people live longer and there are ever more people'..

I actually don't care, I have no pension. It just seems to me that if both people in a couple choose to work and both have pensions, add in people are living longer - perhaps part of pension shortfall could be accommodated with increasing pension age.

A few more years past 67? For many people that would be working till they drop though, particularly if they are doing manual labour.

I remember men of my grandfather’s generation working into old age and poor health, retiring at last, only to die within a very short time. Not much to look forward to after a lifetime’s work.

My grandfather never quit working and lived into his 90s. We're all different.

Just because one could work, doesn't mean they'd have to, perhaps just not receive pension until 70-75. I believe I've read of posters retired a few years awaiting their pensions. How a person structures their spending matters.

Norah Your family were fortunate not to be among the labouring classes.

One of my mothers few memories of her father, he died during WW1, was of him ocming hom from work and sitting by the fire with his head in his hands almost asleep with sheer exhaustion. He was a London docker - and this is the effect the work had on him when still in his 30s. Had he lived and remained a docker, do you think he could have worked like that into his 70s and 80s? Assuming he lived that long and did not die of health problems before then.

M0nica

Norah Your family were fortunate not to be among the labouring classes.

One of my mothers few memories of her father, he died during WW1, was of him ocming hom from work and sitting by the fire with his head in his hands almost asleep with sheer exhaustion. He was a London docker - and this is the effect the work had on him when still in his 30s. Had he lived and remained a docker, do you think he could have worked like that into his 70s and 80s? Assuming he lived that long and did not die of health problems before then.

As I said, we're all different.

Different genetics, education, jobs/careers -- all different. Some healthy people die young in accidental ways, some people live to old age. But to imply all people are old and falling apart at 70-90 is just incorrect, imo.

I also recall a poster (don't recall who) who quit work in her 50s healthy, awaiting retirement age for pension money, having saved for the 'unemployed and over 50, hard to be hired' eventuality.

There is no one size fits all.

Norah

M0nica

Norah Your family were fortunate not to be among the labouring classes.

One of my mothers few memories of her father, he died during WW1, was of him ocming hom from work and sitting by the fire with his head in his hands almost asleep with sheer exhaustion. He was a London docker - and this is the effect the work had on him when still in his 30s. Had he lived and remained a docker, do you think he could have worked like that into his 70s and 80s? Assuming he lived that long and did not die of health problems before then.

As I said, we're all different.

Different genetics, education, jobs/careers -- all different. Some healthy people die young in accidental ways, some people live to old age. But to imply all people are old and falling apart at 70-90 is just incorrect, imo.

True, but if the pension aged went up to 70-75 people would die.

Of course you are right that not everyone is falling apart at 70-90, but not falling apart is not reason enough to be denied the pension you've paid for all your life*, and anyway, nobody is implying that that is the case. What people are saying is that some people, particularly those who have worked in manual jobs, or those who have conditions such as arthritis are physically unsuited to working well into old age. In less physically demanding jobs there are stresses, and keeping up with changes in technology can be difficult for some.

*And yes, I know there is no 'pot', but the fact remains that people have paid NI on the understanding that they would get a pension at 60, and it's already been raised to 66/7. I don't think it is at all unreasonable for people to expect the government to honour its promises. We are all different, so there is nothing stopping those who want to carry on working to do so. That shouldn't mean that we all have to though.

Some one can be fit and healthy and still not be capable of doing the job they have done all their life.

If you have spent your working life doing hard manual work. The chances are that by the time you are 60 you no longer have the stamina and strength to continue to do this 8 hours a day 5 days a week. You may still be strong and healthy.

This may well apply to nurses and other people ont heir feet and running round all day.

I know that at 80, although still able to do all the garden jobs in my large garden, I cannot keep going for four or five hours without a break, have a meal and do the same again the way I used to.. After 2 hours I need to go in and sit down for an hour and not do anything too physically demanding after that.

Exactly. And look how many older people say they are 'no good with technology'. Obviously the sample on here is, by definition, different, but there are many people who haven't kept up with things, to the point where they wouldn't get even basic work in an office. Those who have kept up may still find that the constant updating of systems is too much for them.

It's ridiculous to think that people are the same at 70 as they were at 35. That's not writing them off - many older people can and do work on - but one size doesn't fit all.

Perhaps there is no State Pension in the USA?

I don’t want my GGC taught by over 70’s neither do I want to be treated by Drs or nursed by people over that age when I am ill.
To think of labourers working on farms , building sites and emptying my bins fills me with horror for them.
Will they be working while the younger generation live on benefits because they can’t get a job is ludicrous in the extreme.