Why are all the derogatory comments about old grannies never Grandads?

Doodledog a wise decision.
Having said all I have to say, I’m out too.I’ll only report back if anyone young blesses me.😂

M0nica

Gingester I did not admonish her. After the talk, when everyone else had finished speaking to her. I spoke to her quietly and privately so that no-one else overhead and told her how offensive I found her dismissive reference to 'grans' was - and, in context, how inaccurate.

How else do we stop this kind of dismissive language if we do not tell the people using it how derogatory it sounds?

Over the years other groups have explained publicly how certain words used to describe them as a group are dismissive or derogatory. I set aside those words that were gross insults..

Lots of words we casually used in the past to describe people with physical and mental disabilities we would not use now because people in those groups spoke out and said how much these words seemed always to be used to dismiss them, as essentially of no account. This is how the word 'grans' is used (almost always in the plural), to dismiss older people, especially older women.

It needs more older women to do what I did and speak quietly to people when they use this term and get them to understand how unpleasant it sounds. Hopefully this lady, will now think, when planning programmes and when scripting and will pull up other people, if this term is suggested for use and suggest an alternative.

Absolutely Monica. The "bigger picture* is the key here, regarding social attitudes to older women etc. Its not just about individual personal offence. I have also quietly commented to others on similar use of "older people" words.

This Doodledog, from someone who, rather than explain why they personally finds a particular word difficult, attacks the person who using the word that has long been used for a group of grannies, i.e., "grannies".

You chose to join a group called Gransnet whether as a granny or as an honorary one. To clarify, it is not illegal to use the word "grannies", nor do you don’t get to tell anyone what they may or may not write.

I'm glad you decided to give it a rest, it does get boring, but if you do this again I will, again, point out we all may use words that have meant the same for a very long time and you only have the "right" to explain how you see them now in the hope to persuade.

Have fun with your moving on!

I'm proud to be a granny. My DiL 's maternal grandmother was known as granny and I hope to be a bit like her as she is a lovely lady. I wouldn't want to be grandma as that is the name my MiL chose and I don't want to be like her. I was concerned that the other granny might want that name, and she did, but it seems to work fine with both of us being granny. The children don't seem to be confused by it. As for the connotations of being old and doddery, I tend to suggest that about myself and people say "you're not old" and seem surprised I'm the age I am! Long may it continue!

I’m known as Grandma to my 22 month old Granddaughter.
I love it as not keen on the more modern version as Nana.

I tried a Clouche hat on yesterday and My partner said it look like a Granny’s hat ….I said noooooo I’m a Nana (50’s)😂😂😂

There does seem to be a spate of wimpishness on GN, a lack if backbone. There are words that people need to learn about but that will come over time but really, a fuss over one granny using "grannies" to describe a group on "Gransnet" is petty and childish. The more you make a fuss over comparatively little things, the less people will listen to the really important ones.

DAR

When you identify a person based on the demographic they are in, you immediately, to some extent, remove their uniqueness, their individuality.

The popular media do this frequently. They will report on an incident, or event, which happened to a "mum-of-three" - even though the event or incident may be totally irrelevant to the fact that the woman is a mother. But once the woman has been identified as a "mum" then automatic assumptions will be made about her. They do the same with "dads" too.

And so it is with "grannies". When a particular product is advertised- "grannies will love this simple-to-operate device", the assumption is that those in this age-group aren't able to grasp modern technology. The reality is that there are many people in a wide variety of age groups who, for various reasons, have problems with modern technology.

I don't lose any sleep over it - nor give it much thought unless the subject comes up, as it has on here, because I like to "delve" into these things. My vertebrae is quite intact and I only become a 'wimp' when the dentist reminds me it's time for a check-up.

Neither do I believe that exploring something like the issue posted by the OP should be deemed "whingeing" if one happens to hold a sympathetic view and wants to enlarge on it. That's a tactic sometimes used by those who want to invalidate others' opinions by denigrating the person, and I'm quite surprised at you using it.

Dickens
When you identify a person based on the demographic they are in, you immediately, to some extent, remove their uniqueness, their individuality.

So what?

People are both individuals and members of group. Groups can constrain us but they also sustain us. Individualism can lend us agency or it can leave us lonely and alone.

Why do you always have to blindly follow each and every new extreme? Why despise naturally occurring groups while belonging to a fabricated one which seems to want you to destroy, at least verbally, those who do not agree with your group.

Whatever happened to "live and let live.

DaisyAnneReturns

Dickens
When you identify a person based on the demographic they are in, you immediately, to some extent, remove their uniqueness, their individuality.

So what?

People are both individuals and members of group. Groups can constrain us but they also sustain us. Individualism can lend us agency or it can leave us lonely and alone.

Why do you always have to blindly follow each and every new extreme? Why despise naturally occurring groups while belonging to a fabricated one which seems to want you to destroy, at least verbally, those who do not agree with your group.

Whatever happened to "live and let live.

Why do you always have to blindly follow each and every new extreme?

Huh? Do I? What "extremes" would those be then?

Why despise naturally occurring groups while belonging to a fabricated one which seems to want you to destroy, at least verbally, those who do not agree with your group.

Erm, I was questioning your assumptions; arguing the point; quizzing your use of terms like "whingeing" and accusations of "wimpishness"! Good Grief - I'm not trying to "destroy" anything, LOL! And I'm not in a "group" - that's the whole point!

I think you've gone rather over the top on this

Where I was born grandmas were called mother or even mud or ma, and no one found it offensive. I don't care what mine call me but it's usually grandma and DH is granddad or grandpaw by the ones who lived abroad or maybe a silly old bat behind my back which I was caught calling mine.

It seems we agree that this whole subject is "over the top" Dickens.

I think the picking out of words as "verboten" and the way that you - the groups who do this without any authority - do, is far worse than "over the top".

You, Dickens, appear to think those opposing those trying, without any jurisdiction, to silence others, are "over the top" in their complaints.

If I seem, in your eyes, to be "over the top" on this subject, it is because I feel this is a form of bullying. It happens all over-the internet, usually by cliques or groups, containing people who don't present themseves as either linguists or psychologists, and is both excessive and unacceptable.

DaisyAnneReturns

It seems we agree that this whole subject is "over the top" Dickens.

I think the picking out of words as "verboten" and the way that you - the groups who do this without any authority - do, is far worse than "over the top".

You, Dickens, appear to think those opposing those trying, without any jurisdiction, to silence others, are "over the top" in their complaints.

If I seem, in your eyes, to be "over the top" on this subject, it is because I feel this is a form of bullying. It happens all over-the internet, usually by cliques or groups, containing people who don't present themseves as either linguists or psychologists, and is both excessive and unacceptable.

You are inventing and then assigning motives to me - and then arguing against those motives.

I have not decreed any words to be "verboten". I have simply explained why I believe that demographic labels attached to people denies their individuality and their possible capabilities and can be a form of stereotyping. You know as well as I do that "grannies" are not a homogenous group any more than "mums" or "dads" are. People are quite free to disagree with me, as I am with them. It's an exchange of opinion - I supported mine with my reasons, that is all.

From this you have extrapolated "extremism" and accused me of following "each and every new extreme". Though you have not elaborated on this 'extremism'' nor backed up the accusation with any evidence. Disagreeing with you does not make me an extremist. Nor does it mean that I am attempting to "silence" anyone. As I said, these are all motives that you have concluded, attributed them to me - and then verbally berated me for holding them! Which is quite absurd.

Also your general accusations - presumably to those who hold opposing views to your own - of lacking a backbone, "whingeing" and "wimpishness" is, quite frankly, goading, and you should not be surprised that such insults garner a reaction.

Why don't you debate what is actually said, rather than attempting to find ulterior motives from somewhere inside your head with which to berate me? I explained rationally why I didn't like 'group' labels... you're perfectly at liberty to disagree with my argument with one of your own. Your only response was, so what.

... that is not an argument, that is not debate, it is simply confrontational. You are playing the man instead of the ball.

that is not an argument, that is not debate, it is simply confrontational. You are playing the man instead of the ball., I have never heard this before, but will certainly be using it in the future!

I absolutely agree Dickens when you say that demographic labels attached to people denies their individuality. That is why I dislike " the disabled" or " the elderly".

sodapop

I absolutely agree Dickens when you say that demographic labels attached to people denies their individuality. That is why I dislike " the disabled" or " the elderly".

Ditto! ....or the nurse, who at 60, said to me, ^ Oh we give this to all our geriatric patients^. I had a responsible full time job, but he was so dismissive.

I do understand that it is the medical term for the elderly, but I didn't like it!

Marydoll

sodapop

I absolutely agree Dickens when you say that demographic labels attached to people denies their individuality. That is why I dislike " the disabled" or " the elderly".

Ditto! ....or the nurse, who at 60, said to me, ^ Oh we give this to all our geriatric patients^. I had a responsible full time job, but he was so dismissive.

I do understand that it is the medical term for the elderly, but I didn't like it!

I think that being categorised - medically - as "geriatric" (60+ I believe) is quite acceptable. Because there are unique problems associated with ageing and a branch of medicine = Geriatrics - deals with them!

Same as there are also diseases etc that affect men and women differently - or pregnant women, or new mothers, teenagers, etc. etc. I think that's quite different from (for example) "blonde mum-of-three rescues puppy from drowning"... which is a headline I saw years ago now in a local newspaper! Have you ever seen a strap-line, "blond dad-of-three?

... or, "granny fights off intruder by hitting him with her handbag"... OK, I made that one up .

Being labelled "geriatric" by the medical profession might come as a bit of a shock when you're aged 60, fit and healthy - but, medically, it's relevant!

It was the dismissive tone and manner of the nurse who was treating me, as if I was incapable of understanding and in my dotage, which annoyed me.
I have already stated that I fully understand it is a medical categorisation.

sodapop

I absolutely agree Dickens when you say that demographic labels attached to people denies their individuality. That is why I dislike " the disabled" or " the elderly".

sodapop - but if you are using "the disabled" or "the elderly" in the context of, say, the planning of organisational structures and access to various facilities, then it's relevant.

But I do understand what you mean - I can imagine that anyone who has a disability might wince when being referred to as "the disabled" - there are varying degrees of disability and capability for a start, but it's a necessary distinction if, for example, we are talking about the effects of spending cuts and their effect on the disabled, the elderly, and "the poor". These are specific references for specific purposes. It's the casual and cultural use of terms like "grannies", "mums" (especially if they are blonde!) etc, that just stereotype. If you are a 'granny' - you are a granny to your family, to the rest of the world, you are an individual - or should be.

Hey ho, this is just my opinion - it doesn't mean I'm right in it, I'm just throwing it into the discussion together with the reasons why I hold such an opinion.

Dickens
You are inventing and then assigning motives to me

The words mote and eye come to mind when reading this. I admit the BBC put it better than I did but I was actually, and in passing, showing a brief concern for lack of digital inclusion and for digital poverty and how "grannies" may allow themseves to become deskilled and, therefore, less independent. Except I didn't put all that because that wasn't the topic of the thread, just a remark in passing.

But all you and others can focus on is the use of the word "grannies" on a forum called Gransnet!

And here you go again Dickens
I have simply explained why I believe that demographic labels attached to people denies their individuality and their possible capabilities and can be a form of stereotyping. You know as well as I do that "grannies" are not a homogenous group any more than "mums" or "dads" are.

What did any of that matter at the time? Or to be honest - now?

I really do see the "older women" of the past, leaning across the back fence, hand hiding mouth, saying "did you hear her say (whispered word). It would then continue as an attempt to destroy all those who didnt follow what they believed should be societies rules. Now we are all much better educated and you can do personal attacks for not obeying what you believe should now preoccupy society, on forums. No hand in front of the mouth because we can sound as if we have studied this and are some sort of expert.

Life is not perfect. I am not perfect. You are not perfect but I do wish the nitpicking of the vocabulary of others would stop.

The OP asks When did the word granny become shorthand for all the bad things about aging. For many, if not most it didn't and it hasn't. But you and a few others are determined to tell us why we are using the "wrong" word.

A spanner in the works and arguments we do use grandpa in a derogatory way,how about the stream on here" Grandads shed",you can even buy a ladybird book of the title we have one in the house. When asked by `DD's "Wheres Dad ?' I always say in his shed. He might be in the study or the small sitting room but the family know if we say in his shed he wants to be left alone.

DaisyAnneReturns

Dickens
You are inventing and then assigning motives to me

The words mote and eye come to mind when reading this. I admit the BBC put it better than I did but I was actually, and in passing, showing a brief concern for lack of digital inclusion and for digital poverty and how "grannies" may allow themseves to become deskilled and, therefore, less independent. Except I didn't put all that because that wasn't the topic of the thread, just a remark in passing.

But all you and others can focus on is the use of the word "grannies" on a forum called Gransnet!

And here you go again Dickens
I have simply explained why I believe that demographic labels attached to people denies their individuality and their possible capabilities and can be a form of stereotyping. You know as well as I do that "grannies" are not a homogenous group any more than "mums" or "dads" are.

What did any of that matter at the time? Or to be honest - now?

I really do see the "older women" of the past, leaning across the back fence, hand hiding mouth, saying "did you hear her say (whispered word). It would then continue as an attempt to destroy all those who didnt follow what they believed should be societies rules. Now we are all much better educated and you can do personal attacks for not obeying what you believe should now preoccupy society, on forums. No hand in front of the mouth because we can sound as if we have studied this and are some sort of expert.

Life is not perfect. I am not perfect. You are not perfect but I do wish the nitpicking of the vocabulary of others would stop.

The OP asks When did the word granny become shorthand for all the bad things about aging. For many, if not most it didn't and it hasn't. But you and a few others are determined to tell us why we are using the "wrong" word.

DAR
I think the picking out of words as "verboten" and the way that you - the groups who do this without any authority - do, is far worse than "over the top".

Pray tell me where I have said that words should be forbidden? You can't, because I haven't. I have explained why I personally object to them. It's not a decree, It is an opinion, is all. Everyone and anyone is free to use whatever terminology they choose - as I am likewise free to say why I might object to it.

I'm still waiting to hear from you which extremes I am "blindly" following... Why do you always have to blindly follow each and every new extreme? ???

You've accused me of extremism previously. I don't align with any political party - and certainly not the extreme ends of them. I am neither Right nor Left. So, again, please give me the evidence of my extremism, or kindly stop accusing me of it, please.

The OP asks When did the word granny become shorthand for all the bad things about aging. For many, if not most it didn't and it hasn't. But you and a few others are determined to tell us why we are using the "wrong" word.

NO - I am not telling you or anyone else that you are using the wrong word. I am explaining why I personally object to the stereotyping that I think the word portrays. IT IS AN OPINION which you are free to ignore or debate.

No one is "nitpicking" or "bullying". The OP proposed an opinion, we have all contributed what we think on the matter. Some agree, some don't. Neither have decreed what we should or should not say in future. For goodness' sake, it's just a flippin' debate as is usual on such threads.

Marydoll

It was the dismissive tone and manner of the nurse who was treating me, as if I was incapable of understanding and in my dotage, which annoyed me.
I have already stated that I fully understand it is a medical categorisation.

Yes, I get that. I've also heard that dismissive "tone" on the odd occasion. Hard to define exactly, but you know it when you hear it.

I had that same attitude with a GP trainee a few weeks ago. She won't do that again in a hurry.
I politely reminded her that she had omittted to organise some blood tests, which are a requirement of meds I am on.
On checking my record, she promptly backtracked.

Marydoll

I had that same attitude with a GP trainee a few weeks ago. She won't do that again in a hurry.
I politely reminded her that she had omittted to organise some blood tests, which are a requirement of meds I am on.
On checking my record, she promptly backtracked.

So it's a good job you were on-the-ball then isn't it?... some meds require regular blood tests - especially those tests that are needed to check the body's ability metabolise certain drugs.
Good for you!

I am fortunate that the GPs I usually see are on the ball and take time to listen to what I have to say.
I suspected I was being dismissed as an old biddy nuisance by the trainee.
I went home, phoned my cardiologist, lo and behold, he contacted the surgery and an experienced GP organised another face to face appointment, which resulted in three different consultants being involved.
I often wonder how those who are less robust and savvy deal with this dismissive and ageist attitude, not only in medical situations, but in every day life.