A controversial view of grandparenting

We are all the same as far as I am concerned and there are good and bad regardless to your pay packet

Agreed - it isn't about class, it's about people, relationships, health and so many other things.

True equality has been reached at last!!

I read the article and suddenly realised that neither DH and I or any of my friends and family could in any possible way be described as middle-class grandparents. We may have worked as Naval Officers, Chartered Engineers, Geologists, Economists and Solicitors, but our grand parenting styles make it clear that we are all solidly working class. Several friends make round trips of 100 - 300 miles every week to childcare for several days. We did a round trip of 400 miles to care for DGC during half term.
We all respond instantly in emergencies. We are fortunate enough to have occupational pensions so can afford the cost of all the petrol/diesel needed to make these regular long distance journeys to provide childcare.

Cosmo Landesmann failed to take into account that professional people are usually much more geographically mobile than other groups and we have many Gransnetters who would love to offer help if only their DGC did not live in the Middle East, Antipodes, Asia or the Americas, not to mention John O'Groats when they live near Land's End, and vice versa.

I got the impression that Cosmo Landesman was seizing an opportunity to have a go at his own parents, Flickety, comparing them unfavourably with the maternal grandparents of his children, and having a sideswipe at some of his middle class acquaintances at the same time.

I really felt for him, because exactly the same thing has happened in my marriages, except that Ex's parents were firmly working class and wonderful grandparents and DBH's are great while here but spend all their time following their hobbies and wandering around the world. My own very middleclass mother really isn't interested and has never had any of her nine grandchildren to stay with her by themselves. In fact, they barely know her because she always asks us to visit her without them. There is still that element of children being seen and not heard, and being sent away to school. DBH calls my upbringing 'benign neglect'. Most of my caring as a child was provided by my only relatively working-class grandparent. I don't see the article as being funny at all, as I have seen it with my own eyes.

But I don't really think it is a 'class' thing, despite the fact he tries to give that impression.

Some parents are more distant than others and could become even more distant grandparents, whatever class they 'belong' to.

I didn't think it was funny either, and I don't think it was intended to be. although it was written in a light-hearted way. As I said previously, there is some truth there, whether some GNetters recognise it or not.

janerowena, I am sure the parenting and grandparenting you sadly experience exists, but the question is how common this is and is it limited to middle class parents and, even if it is, what proportion of middle class grandparents are indulging in it? My feeling is that it is not that common, it is not limited to one social group and even if it is more preponderant in one social group than an other, it is still a tiny proportion of that social group.

Every set of grandparents I know, is, or has been involved in the upbringing of their grandchildren in some way or another, where that is at all practical. But it is worth remembering that some grandparents are still working when their grandchildren are born, so that must inevitably limit the help they can offer. As far as I know both Cosmo Landesmann's parents are dead so he is wasting his ammunition if he is trying to get to them.

Personally, this article merely confirms my belief that the urban literatti move in very narrow social circles.

janerowena, I am sure the parenting and grandparenting you sadly experience exists, but the question is how common this is and is it limited to middle class parents and, even if it is, what proportion of middle class grandparents are indulging in it? My feeling is that it is not that common, it is not limited to one social group and even if it is more preponderant in one social group than an other, it is still a tiny proportion of that social group.

Every set of grandparents I know, is, or has been involved in the upbringing of their grandchildren in some way or another, where that is at all practical. But it is worth remembering that some grandparents are still working when their grandchildren are born, so that must inevitably limit the help they can offer. As far as I know both Cosmo Landesmann's parents are dead so he is wasting his ammunition if he is trying to get to them.

Personally, this article merely confirms my belief that the urban literatti move in very narrow social circles.

I can't see any reason why anyone should expect grandchildren to be at the centre of their grandparents' lives. Some choose to put them there, some don't and most seem to care about them a lot. I think the clue to this article lies in the photograph – not, I suspect, one taken in the twenty-first century.

I agree with absent on this.

Both mine and my husband's parents were working class. My parents did what they could and were always pleased to see us. His parents were stand-offish with all their grandchildren. His mother is the only one still alive, and complains that none of the family go to see her, but she would drive past family to go and visit other people she had met on holiday.
Not a question of class in my experience, for what it counts.

I don't think it's as prevalent now, it has become adulterated over the years as the classes have mingled. It still exists though, many middleclass parents are still fairly detached from their children and they have learnt the detachment from their own parents. My sisters and I were able to see how friends we made were treated differently. We had attended a private school but when my mother lost a son and my father realised that she could not have any more children we were taken out and sent to state schools in Tunbridge Wells, which although very middle class still had a mixture of children attending its grammar schools. It was a real eye opener. As for our own grandparents - I had one lovely grandmother who was I suppose lower middle class. She was petrified of putting a foot wrong socially. I loved her dearly. The other one taught me to walk with a book on my head and made me sit and eat with a book on my head. I went to stay with her when my mother was ill, a few times. She criticised my lovely grandmother, said that it was common of my mother to have had four children and that she was no better than a brood mare, got her hairdresser to chop all my hair off in that awful style that children had in the 30s, threw all my clothes out and bought me new ones that I hated (definitely no trousers) and constantly criticised our manners at every opportunity. Luckily, being a 'distant' grandmother, we didn't have to see her all that often. Worst of all, she gave us a father who had no idea whatsoever how to show affection. She sent her children off to school as fast as she could so that she could have a social life. My aunt said that she often refused to have them home in the holidays, and of course they were at separate schools so didn't even have each other.

Ex's mother was a revelation. She was a wonderful mix of all the lovely grans on here. Offered to babysit without being asked, bought useful little gifts, was thoughtful and genuinely interested, very caring and I so wish she had been my mother. MiL is also like that but more absent. So what can I say? It is my own experience of the class difference. I used to think it was because of having to live in smaller houses, that people had to learn to understand each other and get on and were better people as a result. Naïve I know, but our house was huge and sometimes we didn't see each other all week apart from at Sunday lunch when we were all growing up.

*janerowena' I really must challenge your statement that 'many middleclass parents are still fairly detached from their children and they have learnt the detachment from their own parents.' I know your experience has been unhappy, but what is your evidence for this?

Nearly 40% of the UK population falls into Socio-demographic categories ABC1, loosely defined as 'middle class'. Are you suggesting that 40% of all parents are detached from their children. I really do not agree

What about all the children of parents in other social classes, are none of them detached from their children?

A few generalisations I feel!

Probably would have been better to have published this article on 1st April.

My observations are based on public school parents. My children have attended them over the past 25 years. DBH teaches in them, I have worked in them. I have many parent friends and my children have attended a total of 5 different ones between them. Of course not everyone's the same - but my children have also attended state schools, as where they have been to school has always depended on whether we can afford the fees or if there is a discount for teachers, or if we have thought that a school would not suit the children. It has been fascinating.

I think that my family and friends whose children have gone to public schools would be very surprised to think that they are rather more detached from their children than those of us whose children went to state schools.

As I said, not everyone's the same, but I see its existence.

Tony Benn defined working class as: if you are paid for what you do, you are working class.

rosequartz. Whippets are very fashionable here in Leigh on sea Essex
And my Mum always said: we all come the same way, and we all go the same way.

Someone once told me that if anyone is being rude or uppity, just imagine them sitting on the loo.

My brother is always resolutely behind what Tony Benn said re working and class. And it is quite right.

The proportion of people in this country who do not need to work to live is very small. Most people depend on their work to provide their living whether they are on the minimum wage or earning over £100,000. All would soon be on their uppers if they were suddenly unemployed.

I went to boarding school, my father was in the forces and it was the only way to ensure I got a decent education (I went to 8 primary schools). Most of my fellow boarders were there for similar reasons; forces, diplomatic service, international companies. I can think of only a couple of girls at school, who were there for the convenience of their parents.

Both DC went to private schools at 11, one a boarding school. When DS, who was a weekly boarder, had a few problems and we went to talk to his house mother, she was very reassuring saying that as he came from a warm supportive family, he would get over them quite quickly (he did)
She also said that there were a few boys at the school for the convenience of their parents. She said they were always recognisable and they always looked out for them and tried to give them the support they needed.

We were constantly in and out of the school but many boys had parents who, as in my youth, were in the forces etc so found it difficult to visit the school, because their work moved them far from schools that may have been convenient when their son started at the school. There was physical detachment but among DS and friends I saw no lack of emotional closeness between parents and boys