Feeling a lot of pain! :-(

I do NOT see what harm me having him for weekends at first would do , my DD would not even have to visit him here - I could drop him back at the respite centre just before her Sunday visit!

There would be NO negative impact , only 100% benefit to my Grandson

Even after they let me have him if they were concerned I would not stick to the visiting time I could have a SW at my house to supervise the visits if they were concerned , I suppose they would be concerned I would sneak her in at other times but that would NOT happen and what about other Grandparents who have their Grandchild? Surely there has to be some sort of trust and we could do visits at a contact centre if necessary

I AM thinking of my Grandsons well being here , would not do anything to compromise his placement , but to not even be given a chance is beyond unfair

Will get some law advice on Tuesday and draft a letter to start the complaints procedure as this is not fair on my Grandson who would only benefit from this placement and the longer it takes the more concerns I have about his well being , bless him x

Oh nannynoo that must be so soul destroying and I see you posted in the 'wee small hours' when things are at their blackest.

I don't have an answer but there are others who will be able to offer practical advice. In case they are away too keep 'bumping' this thread.

In the meantime (((hugs))) and I'm so, so sad to hear of your losses and especially that of your granddaughter.

I'm sorry I have no useful advice. All I can do is send you a hug.

You could write to your MP. Last week the Prime Minister was praising the wonderful grandparents who look after their grandchildren full time. Use the website Writetothem.com to write to your MP. You would need a shorter version of what you have written above.

I have no answer either, other than thinking that perhaps SS are concerned that you may weaken with your daughter as you have been through an emotional blender in the last few months.

Of course you will fight on for your DGS and prove them wrong. I know there are grans who have experience and can help you.

nannynoo I have no experience but you make a good case to counter the finding of SS. jess has a good suggestion, use what you wrote above as a "first draft" and write it up again in a shorter version for your MP and/or the complaints process.

I have no experience or advice either nannynoo but add some more (((hugs)) to add to vampirequeen's.

The advice you have been given already sounds good!

nannynoo - from what you write, it seems likely your grandson is the subject of care proceedings. You must see a solicitor asap. Make sure the solicitor you see is a specialist in Family Law, and a member of the Children Panel, all that information should be on the firms website. It isn't unknown for local authority social workers to 'rule out' grandparents in the way you describe, but for that decision to be reviewed by the Court, an isw appointed, and things turned around.

Google Family Rights and you will find good information and advice.

If you want to PM me, I'll help if I can. I am a retired Children's Guardian so have experience of families in the difficult situation you describe

nanynoo what a terrible time you are having. I hope you get to keep as much contact with your grandson as you can. You obviously love him very much

It might be good to go down the complaints route so that you get the opportunity to make your case once again. These situations are always complex and social workers have to make informed predictions (which is very very hard) and always put the needs of the child first, even when they fully understand how painful it is for someone who loves the child dearly to feel sidelined.

Take all the advice that you can, but please do bear in mind, in the midst of your pain, that social workers have an impossible task - they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They have to assess risk, and will know that you, as a mother, will be torn between your DD and your GC. I know that I would find it entirely impossible to make that choice, as i would be so concerned about my DD's problems and also her child's - what a sad situation for you.

There is never any ideal solution to these very difficult situations.

I do feel for you and hope that there will be a happy outcome to all of this - it must be misery for you.

nannynoo I feel so bad for you up all hours last night posting on the forum. I hope you come back (or you may already have) and read all the good advice you have been given, GNetters are so kind.

Nannynoo Don't give up with SS [well named aren't they?]Keep calm though and do not show emotion with them even if it's really hard.Email your MP and tell him about the situation. Keep up your visits to DGS when you can.Keep on and ON at SS and go down all the routes available.

Not a very helpful or original dig at social services rosesarered. You must be aware that there are many members of GN who are or were social workers and who might like to offer good advice in this situation. Why be provocative?

Other advice given is good nannynoo. It might be worthwhile asking for a meeting with the SW and manager who have made this decision, and if they are not helpful or you are still not satisfied, taking it down the complaints route. Don't give up, many decisions of social workers are overturned in court. Is there a children's guardian involved? They often take a completely different view to the child's social worker.

Nightowl - you are right to point out the dig at social services. I let it pass, as I have heard it all before, but am grateful to you for making the point. It is this sort of comment that makes their job even more difficult.

Social workers are between the devil and deep blue sea: every time they are accused of under-reacting when a child is injured or dies, they inevitably become more risk averse, which on occasions can mitigate against a good outcome for the child emotionally.

Although we cannot know all the facts of this particular problem, we can begin to understand the position of both "sides." On the one hand poor nannynoo is quite reasonably desperate to make her contribution to her GC's well-being; but on the other the social workers have to be quite sure that this child is not put at any risk by possible contact with her mother, who sadly sounds to have some serious problems of her own. In other words they would have to take a calculated risk. Charged with the protection of the child as their prime responsibility, they have to weigh up the possible risk - so very very difficult to do; and so much to lose if they get it wrong - both the fate of the child (which is what matters most) and yet another exposure to public censure for the social services.

Most of the criticism of social workers' actions is with the benefit of hindsight - would that seeing into the future were so easy.

Social services do not always get it right, and the quality of the social workers inevitably varies - and this is where independent review via a complaints system rightly comes in. But it is important to remember that thoughtlessly branding social workers as villains serves only to make the situation worse.

I feel for poor nannynoo and for her DD and GC - life is so hard for them all at present, and I hope fervently that the right solution can be found. But there is no doubt that, when faced with these challenges, the social services department's solution is never going to feel perfect to all parties - it will inevitable represent a compromise. It is to be hoped that her DD will get the treatment she needs to deal with her addiction and that things for this family can gradually settle down.

I know that many people here on Gransnet will be hoping for a happy outcome for you all.

nightowl and mishap Well put! You have saved me a post.

Mishap and Nellie

Thanks night owl and mishap, for your posts

nannynoo I'm so sorry to hear of all the heartache you have suffered recently and how much you and your grandson miss each other.

It is natural that you feel social services are mistaken in making the decision they have. But they know that you have been -and continue to be - under a great deal of stress, and I imagine they are concerned that it will be difficult for you as a mother to limit or prohibit your daughter's access to her son. That is not to say they are necessarily right, but it may help you to view their action as one which no doubt recognises how much you love your grandson but which must take into account the whole family situation.

I do hope the posts on here have given you some ideas as to where you can get advice and support. Good luck, and wishing you, your grandson and your daughter happier and more settled times ahead.

Thank you all for your help and support

I am happy to explore all options with SS including my daughter not being allowed to visit at my house and having visits at a contact centre

Of course I feel for my daughter but she is an adult in this situation who must seek and obtain the help she needs the first step being admitting she needs help

My Grandson is a child and one with special needs who has not got full speech , he can't be asked questions about his care

I am not hiding anything and am fully open about the situation , my abilities and where I am at

I just want a positive outcome for him which I feel would be a successful placement with me and am happy to work towards this role even if I have to ''go through the wringer'' in the process

I admire your balanced approach nannynoo.

You may find that you are more likely to get the outcome that you are seeking if you are able to control the understandable anger and frustration that you are feeling and try to stay calm (hard I know) when discussing things with SSD - if they can see the person that we can from your last post then they are more likely to listen. They need you to show that you understand their position and their duty to make sure the child is safe.

One of the ways you can do that is to be absolutely clear about the strategies that you might use to prevent contact between your DD and GC. Just saying that you will keep her away may feel too vague to them - they have to be sure that they are protecting the child.You need to be clear about how you might achieve what is needed without the child being subjected to distressing scenes of his mother at the door being cast away - very traumatic for him - something that SSD (and you of course) will want to avoid.

It is a very precarious situation all round and I am sorry that you are having to endure this.

I have faced everything life has thrown at me thus far head on

Have got through the difficult days even the ''days from hell''

Tea helps lol seriously though as does getting plenty of sleep albeit at unconventional hours right now , eating well and generally taking care of myself and my well being

Am not saying it is not an extremely difficult time with plenty more to come but am facing everything life throws at me as best I can and in the healthiest way possible

I would say I was doing well under the circumstances! xx

Good for you nannynoo.I admire your courage.

I have given much thought to the ''possible scenarios'' and of course I want to avoid them too and my Grandson becoming distressed , especially as I know I can offer him a safe , calm and stable enviroment which is vital for him continually

I am not sure how other Grandparent carers or even non family carers deal with this situation or possible situation?

She does not know my new address , just the area I will be living but I doubt it would be difficult for her to find out my address

These are things I have myself thought about too

Surely other people have been in this situation and worked a way through it?

Would it help to notify the police in my area to let them know that IF there is a call from my address if my DD turns up unannounced at the door it would be a priority call?

Obviously IMMEDIATELY take my Grandson upstairs to his room which is at the back of the house ring 999 straight away and stay in his room with him , close door to keep any noise out , put something calming on TV for him like 'Thomas' which he loves and and keep him calm remain calm and wait for police to arrive

Not enter into ANY verbal communication with DD as if she was going to do something as irrational as that she would NOT be in a place to have a rational conversation!

Am sure it is a scenario non family foster carers have to be prepared for as well??