Unattended Grandsons

slimgramma

Do they live in the UK? I get the impression they don't.

If you feel the children are at risk or left without good supervision you should consider contacting the police or children's services.

Hi Nelliemoser. No, I myself and DD live in the U.S. I have read and read about contacting children's services and what they consider "neglect". Unfortunately there must be an awful amount of truly "neglected" because my worries don't seem to be a big thing here. When my first grandson passed (the story is long) my daughter barely got a slap on the hand.

eek.

Sounds like my ex. Totally incapable of seeing consequences for actions) Do you make a note of what they tell you and when?

I know it is not your responsibility, but could you babysit to give the parents a bit of a break so they may be more attentive on the times they do have them?

have you spoken to the NSPCC?

Oh my. I forgot that part! The kids are shipped off to both sets of grandparents, friends etc whenever possible. They get plenty of time to relax but won't admit it. So sorry I sound horrible but wasn't sure where to turn before I blasted her with a horrible email. My ex and his wife are the other grandparents. (Yes we are friends.? we all agree.

BlackeyedSusan..I'm not sure what the NSPCC is. I'm in the U.S. I do have a cousin in England. Maybe I'll ask her.

sorry, thought you were Uk based. I think you have something similar in the US. National society for the prevention of cruelty to children.

We do have that here. Too many with as they call it "more serious issues!" UGH. We don't want to bury another grandchild.?

My heart aches for you and those kids, slimgramma! I don't get the authorities in your state and how they could ignore all this! Maybe they think, ok, kids fall and it's not as if they've being abused or going unfed. But when one puts everything together it spells "endangerment" to me. Please keep bringing it up to CPS, as awkward and aggravating as that may be. Document everything - even take pictures of injuries if you have to. If they finally investigate and your DD and SIL suspect that you GPs reported them, they may be very angry and keep the kids away from you for a while. But I think it may be a worthy sacrifice to make for your GC's safety.

For now, I hope you and the other GPs continue to take the kids as often as possible, as exhausting as I know it can be. You are providing a safe haven for them. Bless you (and the other GPs)!

Talk to NSPCC US equivalent, family doctor, school, nursery, health visitor (or US equivalent) - everybody! No doubt you will fall out with DD over this, but the risks are too high to let that stand in your way.

You are not making a fuss - if all that you say is true then the children are at risk.

Sounds really awful, and worryingly unsafe.

How close by do they live, slim?

I agree about talking to the school - if the statutory services can't intervene on your say-so, then the school might alert them.

It's difficult. It would be hard to prove actual neglect, even with all the details in your post, but it's very poor parenting

If the children can run riot in the way you say, surely the whole family could be at risk if somehow they managed to set the place on fire. I can also imagine the damage that could be caused if they left water running because that is what two of my grandsons did when their parents thought they were playing peacefully upstairs. Then the hall ceiling came down...

You must be so worried , my heart goes out to you.

This is a time for tough love in my opinion. If you do nothing and something terrible happens I am sure you would feel unbearable guilt, so despite the fact that you don't feel the authorities have been helpful in the past I think you will have to alert them at some stage.

You might not like the idea of staging an intervention with your S and DiL but I think its inevitable. If all the grandparents feel the same then if you can get someone to have the children other than yourselves, maybe you can sit down with the parents and explain your concerns.

There's no need to be mean or rude, try and be as calm as possible, state your concerns, give examples if you can. Then maybe ask what you can do to help?

Make them think about the situation ( and the answer isn't to fob the GC off to the grandparents so they can relax more. Its about understanding what parenting is and means.

IF all your advice falls on deaf ears then the authorities are the way to go.

Maybe your S and DiL need parenting classes, contrary to popular belief I don't think parenting comes naturally to all ,especially the 'me me me' generation .

I hope you find a way forward that works for you all but especially the GC x

Frankly, I find it unbelievable that parents who have already lost one child through neglect can act in this way.

Don't judge. The mother might have been exhausted. We can't know the whole story here.

Are there no US forums you could find advice slimgramma? Things are probably handled differently in the States.

Thank you so so much everyone.. I'm at work or I could respond more! It's nice that I am able to talk about this. A lot of my family have not talked to DD since we lost our grandson. People are afraid to hear it! The intervention sounds good. At least then we know we tried! Before I turn them in. And yes, it is all true. Also my DD was addicted to pain meds back when it first happened.

Quite right - don,t judge. This may be a case of over anxious grandparents and very relaxed parenting styles. We do not know the parents perspective on this.

Four boys under seven is my idea of a nightmare, I find looking after one hyperactive 16 month old grandson exhausting and yes young children do manage to outwit parents often, luckily they generally do not come to any harm.

So sorry about your first grandchild slimgran it must have been devastating for your family .

Yes, I meant to say, too, so sorry for the loss of your oldest GC. You and yours have my deepest sympathies...

When you speak to the authorities do you tell them that one child in the family has already died because of the parents failure to supervise properly? It is difficult to make specific suggestions on where to look for help or expect it as I do not know the US system, but I think in the UK such a family would be on an 'at risk' register.

The advice of NanaandGrampy is very good. I would only add it sometimes helps to talk as if you understand the pressures they are under, 4 children under 8, is demanding, ask them how they are feeling and how you could help. Try and think of some positive aspects of their parenting, believable, even if fictitious and mix your concerns with praise of things they do that are good. You will get better results if you build them up rather than knock them down, however kindly.

I fully understand how difficult it is to talk kindly and supportively in a situation like this when the the parents seem to be, at best, irresponsible, at worst neglectful. But in very different circumstances I have managed it so it is possible and it was a more productive conversation than if I had just gone in and explained to someone (nicely) all the problems they were causing

I had a similar situation, although to have already experienced the death of a child we might expect that they would be extra cautious. My DD and SiL were in the habit of going for a siesta and leaving my grandson aged 6 alone downstairs. 'We've locked the door, and he knows to come to us if there's a problem.'

I was very verbal in my disapproval and said there was no way I was leaving him. Yes, they work from early morning and it's incredibly hot in the afternoons, often 45C. My daughter often works from 3.00 a.m. before the heat of the day. My grandson has never slept in the afternoons. I refused to go for siesta, which is fine when I'm there, but I do worry about when I'm not. I think my daughter got the message. She now says although he's not tired he must go to his room with Lego/book/tablet with programmes to watch.

Can they afford to pay for someone to take care of them for an hour or so in the afternoons? Sleeping is one thing, but playing video games seems irresponsible. It seems as though they're not really aware of their responsibilities of care for their children. They want to have the life of young couple without children.

A very quick online search brought up...

www.childwelfare.gov/topics/responding/reporting/ Here you will find contacts for each State.

www.loveourchildrenusa.org/reportingchildabuse.php

www.americanhumane.org/children/programs/child-abuse-neglect-prevention/

You may find some coping strategies on the sites and may be able to call for advice.

I wish you a happy solution to this very worrying and sensitive situation.

Thank you for the many responses and ideas! I think I have caused an ulcer to flare up worrying about this. I will definitely check out the websites Ginny42.. This really is a very short version of what is going on. And yes I am a very anxious grandparent. I'm not sure yet what to do. I'm thinking of the intervention but it's s bit hard when my DD and SIL will deny. Anyway, thank you so much and I will keep you posted!

Can you have a serious talk with the parents with your ex and his wife also present and impression them that's it's not at all amusing but immature, irresponsible and dangerous? Is there any parenting counselling someone could persuade them to go to?
So sorry about your first grandchild, a very sad thing to happen in any family.

I have been thinking about you overnight and what I failed to add to my post yesterday is that if you have serious concerns about the safety of these little boys you need to talk to the relevant authorities. As Ginny42 suggest a quick internet search would point you in the right direction.

slim please think very hard before you report your DD to anyone. Firstly if the children are otherwise well cared for-fed, clothed, loved with reasonable learning for the eldest you are unlikely to get any action from a child protection agency who may well view this as a life-style choice. Secondly what will happen if you do report them? Are you able to take on the children? If not you might be looking at seeing the children split up and removed from your circle. It must be so hard having lost a grandchild. I don't know how the US works but I have known people here whose grandchildren were taken into care and who lost all contact when they were adopted. Can you offer more help? Or perhaps talk to your DD alone? She must still be suffering from the loss and is perhaps not looking after the others properly because of this?

Here are a few random thoughts which you don't need to answer here: I am wondering if your SIL is at work? Do you think your DD is suffering from depression and has turned to playing games as an escape because she can't cope? Does she go to a parent and toddler group with the twins? Do you have family counsellors in the USA - could you afford to arrange for that? Did she go to work before having children? I wonder if it would be better for her to go to work and to arrange childminding? Have they taken steps to prevent further pregnancies? I can imagine that trips to the park, shopping etc must be a nightmare. Did your DD have counselling after the first child died? Does she get out of the house at all? eg keep fit, or date nights?
I am sure the websites provided by Ginny42 will be helpful. At least you and the other grandparents are united in your recognition of the problem and desire to help. I think you are very brave to take this step and hope it will all work out in time.