Unattended Grandsons

Hi SlimGramma,
What an awful situation you find yourself in. And how awful for the children, too.
The question here is how to resolve all these problems, and the answer is it will not be easy. First of all there's the question of how much genuinely bad stuff is going on, and how much SIL is deliberately winding you up. SILs can be strange fish at the best of times, and this is not the best of times. We have no idea what motivates him in all this. Hopefully he is trying to support DD (however much you may disagree with his efforts) as well as trying to get over his own grief. Four children will never make up for the loss of the first.
The one thing we can be certain of here is that you are very worried. This may well make you hypersensitive, which may make you "sound paranoid" when you speak to any of the people you've so far tried to get help from. Please don't misunderstand me; I know you've been through Hell. But your priority here must be to find a way of achieving the near-impossible.
My suggestion is that you start with offloading as much as you possibly can; on this site or anywhere else; so that you can speak more calmly about everything. Then you might be in a better position to assess which things that DD and SIL are doing are the most awful: the priorities for you to deal with. There's heaps of good advice here from people; sift through it and see what you can use.
This problem is not going to be dealt with overnight. I wish you strength in trying to sort out where to begin and how best to achieve the safer situation you're aiming for.

slimgramma I tried to post earlier today but GN went offline.

This is a UK Forum! We had a post like this from a USA resident possibly a couple of years ago I found it strange that it has been posted on a UK forum.

You really need to make contact with services in the USA. We can do nothing from the UK.

This is the site you need to report to.
www.childwelfare.gov/topics/responding/reporting/

Where to begin..trisher, Actually the last thing I want to do is report her for the reasons you've posted. That will be my last choice. We spent over a year with CPS, police, etc and they did nothing. My grandson fell off of a 3 story balcony. He was actually recovering! We begged the services to let us take him until he healed. He had a brain bleed. They sent him home with her, telling her to get a helmet made. That never happened. Then he supposedly fell back off a coffee table. Which triggered the bleed. This was two weeks later.

Star bird... To make a long story short..my DD works full time if she doesn't call in "sick". My SIL works 3 days a week. The DGS's are with us or friends or my ex 3 weekends out of four. Two here two there type thing. They get babysitters frequently. Some weeks I can honestly say my DD is with all four of her children a total of 12-14hrs a week and two out of four weekends she only has two of them. Sorry, it doesn't take much to steam me up these days.?

I did actually try to talk to her yesterday. It started out calm but with tears but unfortunately it turned into anger and denial. Many times I have suggested therapy but that doesn't seem to interest her. It's a lifestyle she has chosen. They have chosen. I've babbled on I know. I left it with telling her that we don't care what she and SIL do. But that we worry about the kids. I can't type her reply but I have been blocked from her Facebook page so I'm thinking she needs time to cool off.

Actually slimgramma I think you will find that the last thing you want is to lose another grandchild?

Absolutely agree that you should report it. Not sure what the system is in the US, but what about the children's schools? They should have a Child Protection officer similar to in the UK. They may have contacts which you don't have access too.

No doubt, Trish is right and that before bringing in the authorities, you and DH would have to think about whether or not you would be willing to take in the kids fulltime, even if only temporarily. Or perhaps the other GPs would? You might want to discuss this with them first.

If none of you are willing to take them on fulltime, then I think Trish makes another good point - you have no control over where the authorities will place them or how often you'll get to see them, etc. No doubt, you need to think this over carefully.

But we're not just talking about kids who spend a lot of time on their own. We're talking about toddlers who are getting out of the house, by themselves, and turning on the stove, etc! OP, I don't mean to raise your anxiety further, but, IMO, you have reason to be anxious! At some point you may have to go to social services or whatever, no matter what the emotional cost.

If I were you, I would try that intervention first, if possible, even if the parents do deny, deny, deny. At least, you'll know you tried before you go to the authorities. Or better yet. check out those websites first - then decide what you feel is best.

Thinking about what I posted before it occurred to me that if I felt my DGCs really were in danger seeing them taken into care and losing touch with them would be a real expression of love and care, putting their welfare before your own feelings. I wish you all the best slimgramma there isn't an easy way all the options mean pain and stress for you. Stay strong, these children need you.

Oh, sorry, didn't see your latest post! Please ignore the above!

So shocked at the authorities' casual attitude to what was going on with OGS! And so deeply, deeply sorry...

About the other kids - You must be besides yourself! I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes! Hopefully, the websites Ginny gave you will help.

It's clear DD feels overwhelmed by the childcare (on top of her fulltime job) and perhaps SIL does, as well. I know, I know, other parents are in the same boat and they chose to have several kids, etc. But apparently they are having trouble handling it all (sigh).

I'm glad you recognize that the fact that DD blocked you on FB suggests "she needs some time to cool off." I trust you realize that means you shouldn't call her or anything, till she calls you. I know you'll be worried about the kids, but you are, anyway, and trying to contact her won't change anything. Chances are, she'll be contacting you again soon for babysitting, if not this weekend (maybe she already has?), then next.

Once things are back to "normal," for a while, is it possible to offer to come over and watch the kids for a few hours each day, while she and SIL sleep/unwind after work? I know that sounds crazy on top of having them for whole weekends, but perhaps you and the other GPs could take turns doing this? Or offer to all chip in and pay for a nanny/sitter to watch them? These offers would have to be made in a supportive way ("You two have so much on your plate and we want to help..."). And I know the parents may well decline. But it may be worth a shot.

Since you just had a blowup with DD, I don't think you should be the one to present this idea to her if all the GPs agree to it. IMO, one of the others should float the suggestion, either to her or SIL or both. I know this isn't how it should be - they should be there more for their kids and so forth. But they're not, so I'm trying to figure out what might help.

But first, forgive me, I feel compelled to ask, do you know for sure that DD and SIL leave the kids on their own while they relax upstairs? Or that the toddlers sometimes turn on the stove? And so forth? Are you certain you're not getting a distorted version of what goes on now from the kids or whoever? After the tragic loss of OGS, I don't blame you and the other GPs for believing the worst, but before you do anything, IMO, you need to be clear in your mind that the situation is as bad as you've been led to think.

(((Hugs!)))

I think this is a tough one , there are serious things which warrant neglect and this may be seen as borderline rather than actual neglect

I rang the NSPCC once as my neighbour used to leave her children alone and go out! ... They did nothing and said there was no 'official' age that children could be left alone and as they weren't young as such ( around 8-10 years old ) there was nothing they could do

Serious neglect cases are looked at and yes unfortunately there is enough of that around to keep child protection services on their toes and overloaded with cases , this would be seen as bad parenting choices etc but also a child can fall while you are in the kitchen cooking dinner and they are in another room

I don't want to feel scared of nodding off on the settee one day if tired while my GS is in my care , that would make me nervous and on edge if I thought someone would report me if I ever nodded off to sleep and I can't say I never had a nap when my children were young eg around 7 years old as have nodded off from exhaustion before while they played!

If I felt I would be reported for that I would feel guilty and fearful combined!!! x

You would think with 2 of them there they would work as a team ie one supervise the children while the other slept , rested or had a break and take it in turns , let alone interact with the children together and play and have fun with them and ENJOY being a family , sounds like they are finding things hard but don't want to admit it , it is risky though re the cooker etc and there need to be safeguards eg locks etc fully in place ( at least! lol )

Am not sure if CPS are ever going to take it seriously tbh but it is natural you have a deep fear after what has happened before

I do hope things improve for you and your family , sounds like the couple need to heal and mend properly so they can fully enjoy their family / children together and I hope your heart truly mends too xx

BTW foster and adoptive parents aren't perfect either

My GS used to stay in his room and play alone until the foster carer got up and if she needed a lie in who knows how long he would be 'unsupervised' for

Not saying they would be as unsupervised in care or if adopted but I feel you need to give the family a chance , sounds like they have some unresolved issues hence needing a break so often and not FULLY coping , sounds like it is not just an innocent nodding off on the settee after a tiring week of looking after 4 children , sounds like there is more interaction as a family as a whole which needs to go on as it must be chaos for the kids but 'normal' to them now

Not to negate what is happening but there are parents who go out and leave children fully alone and you can't supervise them every minute of the day ie be in the same room , but like I said I think this has to do with not enough interaction as a family

Maybe all go out and do fun stuff together and they may start enjoying that bonding time plus seeing that children are actually better behaved the more notice you take of them and interact with them and give them attention and you can all chill out in the house and do seperate things sometimes but everyone is still happy and secure with the level of bonding between them!

Do you get those programs on your tv where a nanny steps in and stays with a family for a few days and turns their relationship with the children around?
If you can find a few episodes that are similat to your DD's situation, would she and SIL watch them?