posting a question

Two threads in one here ...

Patriciaann I do think you need to have confidence in yourself and your relationship to date. As others have said, little ones can test and try us out , especially if we have laid down our own expectations. I think your little GS will soon come round again and it is important that you are consistent. Just go on being the lovely granny / (nanny?) you are and I think the smiles will soon be back. I haven't had to cross this bridge with a GC yet, but it happened with a toddler that I was child minder to.

I do wonder about how things will pan out with the 'other granny' as she is the local one, but I know my Cs all built lovely relationships with both of their grannies so I expect to do the same really.

Gemmag, my DD and SIL have expressly said no photos on FB and to be honest I am glad. Even though we have the tightest privacy settings, I feel anything we put on social media is open to abuse. I recently opened up my account (don't use it much) and 'FB' had created a slide show for me of 'your favourite memories' - basically raiding my pictures! That felt like an invasion in itself. It's a tricky one - I just wouldn't want to take the risk. I am sorry that your DIL handled it so badly though. I hope you can revisit the subject with her if only to finally put it to bed ... seems left open at the moment.

When I read your last post I thought how lovely that you think so highly of your DD in so many ways. Are you able to tell her - even by email - that you think she is doing a really good job? And do you think she would take it as genuinely, kindly meant rather than patronising? I just wonder if it is a way to build bridges.

I feel I have had to gently prod my daughter to be mindful of her MIL a couple of times - not because she is insensitive at all - just because I know her MIL needed to be invited in more demonstratively when first GS was born. She is a lovely nanny, but so worried about imposing - this could easily have been misread as her being standoffish, but if both parties are treading round each other something needs to change for things to improve. Sorry if any of this is misplaced / clumsy -I am just sorry for you that things are a bot awry at the moment

I forgot to put this in my previous post.

My Facebook account was hacked into recently and all my profile had been completely taken over and changed The hacker had even put their photo on there as my profile picture and added their own 'friends' - my friends had disappeared. Fortunately, I've never posted any photos of anyone or any information about anyone, I used it mainly to access Gransnet and other organisations.

This is what can worry parents with young children about posting photos etc. Sad world

Oh, MinnirMouse, that's awful! I hope it was all straightened out as quickly as possible! TG, you didn't have any pictures of your grands up there!

Gemmag, I guess, it just goes to show that, sometimes, it's good to speak up. Especially if you feel you're being mistreated. And maybe it means more since you generally keep quiet. Overall, though, I would continue to be careful in order to maintain a relationship w/ my GC.

BTW, is it possible that DIL didn't call due to the late hour? Regardless, I'm glad she and DS (you said "they" were concerned that you were upset).

The fact that DS seems to have been involved in the response suggests to me that he was also on board w/ the request that you take down the pictures, But perhaps he disagreed w/ the way DIL expressed it and spoke up on your behalf.

In fact, I agree, it would have been better if he handled it in the first place. While I don't think it's "rude" for DIL to have contacted you, I think it would have been wiser for DS to do it. He would have known better how to approach you and there seems to be a strain between you and DIL, anyway.

I'm sorry about that, too. I don't know if she's the kind of DIL who just wants nothing to do with ILs or if you're just not her cup of tea or whatever. How disappointing! But I think you'll just have to accept that this is how things are and focus mostly on your relationship with DS and the kids.

Meanwhile, Patricia, I hope our words have eased your mind and brought you some comfort.

Gemmag , Everyone I know posts pictures of their children/grandchildren and I have never heard anyone have a problem before. I think it was very mean of your DIL and you were right to pull her up .

I would never post pictures of my grandchildren, on here or anywhere.

To mcem.

I disagree with you about manners changing over time and it is not rude to post photos on FB. You either have good manners or you do not!

It was a mistake on my part to post photo's on FB and I did remove them when I received the very blunt email from my DIL and I won't be doing that again. I should have given it more thought. I wouldn't dream of sending my DIL such an email whatever she did or however much she upset me. I just feel that she could and should have dealth with it in a much more considerate way.
All I want is to get along with her and I don't know what to do as she is very difficult. She is extremely clever with a top job so there's no need for her to feel that she has to 'put me in my place' and that is what I think she is doing.

mini that is scary.

My posting on Facebook of the occasional photo of my grandchild, visible to a selected group of family and good friends - usually tucked up in his pram, or "modelling" one of my latest knitting creations - has (until now) been an innocent pleasure. From now on they will stay on my phone. Sigh.

I never have and never would post a photo of my grandson on GN, as it is a public forum.

A few decades ago it would have been seen as rude if a man didn't raise his hat to a woman or didn't stand when she entered a room. Not the case today as manners change over time.
Many of us see it as rude to be involved in texting etc while in company - not an issue in previous times.
I reiterate, manners change with time and custom.
To say that one either has good manners or one doesn't is a fallacy unless we have an agreed and unchangeable standard.
I know I'm not alone in thinking it's rude and presumptuous to post pictures willy-nilly on a public forum like FB.

Thank you Wendysue I had to go through the rigmarole of closing down the account, which proved tricky as I wasn't Me any more! I then had to wait a few weeks to open a new account. It's really scary when it happens because you've no idea what 'they' may have been doing using your name and account .....

If you felt that someone had put your children at risk of being targeted by paedophiles when they were small I wonder how you would have reacted Gemmag? I think probably you would have been quite emotional and said something very blunt indeed. I certainly would have reacted very badly. Perhaps your DIL didn't behave as you would want her to but perhaps also you should be pleased that she has such care and protection for your GCs.

trisher if the "someone" was your MIL you'd think the response would have been tempered by kindness.

I have no grandchildren as yet but I dont think I would think twice about posting pics of them on FB -but now I think about it few of my(very proud) 'granny'friends do ,other than maybe one pic of them with a newborn ,unless it is a family gathering.
I posted a pic of a friends 6 m old Grandson eyeballing our cat at Christmas, as it was very amusing, but took care not to show the child's face

mcem. My husband still stands up when a woman enters a room. Would certainly take his hat off if he were wearing one before entering a room. Opens doors for women. He has lovely manners and he does not like bad manners in other people and neither do I.

It is rude to have telephone conversations on buses/trains in shops etc.,
It is rude to burp and not say 'excuse me'.
It is rude to start eating before everyone's sitting down.
It is rude not to say thank you when given a present.
It is rude to talk over another person.
It is not RUDE to post a photograph of a GC on FB,misguided and a bit stupid perhaps but not rude.

I do think that my DiL is a fantastic mum.
I do realise that it was wrong to put the photo's on FB.
I took them down when I was asked to (up on FB for less than 2 days.)
I will never post photo's of GC on FB again.

All I am saying is that I think my DiL should have spoken to me and explained that she didn't want the photo's on FB and asked me to remove them and not to have sent me such a blunt email and now all would be fine.
Instead she has left me feeling that I have done something awful.

Manners Maketh Man.

Grannyknot if it was MIL I might have been even more angry. Someone so close doing something harmful. OK it was done from a lack of understanding of the possible consequences, but maybe if we use the technology we should make an effort to ensure we understand the risks involved. E-mails tend to give the immediate response and feelings of the sender, I think younger people appreciate this and don't take them to heart. I know you were upset Gemmag but couldn't you just regard it as a venting of feelings and make allowances?

Thank you * gemmamag* for your detailed exposition on good manners and I'm delighted for you that your DH adheres to these values. However I maintain that in this day and age a man would no longer be dismissed as an oaf if he didn't stand when a woman enters a room.
Posting pics on public forums I agree is misguided and stupid but I do believe that by the mores of 2016 it's also a practice that's rude if it upsets people by paying no regard to their feelings and preferences.

Thank you mcem.

In this day and age good manners are still good manners and is sadly lacking in a lot of younger people today.

I did not disregard my DiLs feelings. I would never deliberately disregard her feelings. As I have already said I think she is a wonderful mother. I just wasn't thinking. It never entered my head that she would react in such a way to me posting a few photo's of my grandchildren on FB and I certainly won't be doing it again. She could have dealth with it in a more civil way and I did remove them immediately.

Hi, I have 3 grandchildren aged 9, 7 and 5 - the oldest one was born in 2006, a year after I divorced. Their mother is my only daughter and sadly is very much a daddy's girl especially as her dad is a controlling and manipulative person. She has continued to be loyal to him and has treated me with little respect especially since we separated in 2001. She also still blanes me for an abortion she had in 2003 when she was 17. I have supported her as best as I can during the past 10 years even though she has a partner, the father of all my grandchildren. I had a good rapport with the children but have always felt unwelcome. The complication is that my daughter is close to my mother and sister, both of whom have avoided me during the past 6 years since I moved to a new area in an attempt to start a new life. I think they must feel threatened by my independence - I have also grown apart from them as my sister had a fling with my ex a long time ago and they continued to see each other after we separated and my mother remained loyal to my sister. When I found out by accident last May that my sister and niece came to visit my mother and daughter without telling me, I was hurt and told my daughter the reason why I left her dad i.e, because of the games they played at my expense. My daughter has since said that she wants no more contact with me - I had to leave Xmas gifts at my mothers house where they all went at Xmas - I have sent texts and s letter which was a template from grandparents plus but no reply ..... I am now thinking of applying to the court for a contact order but wonder if I'm too late or if the children have been turned against me .... A fine mess!!

Gemmag, I see you have some very set ideas about good manners and that's fine - you're entitled to your opinion. But for better or worse, ever since the Women's Lib movement in the 1970s, here in the U.S., anyhow, where I am, some of the traditional "good manners" towards women (holding doors for them, standing up when they enter a room, etc.) have been questioned. Most women I know still like it when I guy opens/holds a door for them, but I don't know anyone who is critical if they don't and so forth. Time have, in fact, changed some of our ideas of manners. (I don't know how that has been in the U.K, I admit.)

As for manners on the Internet, as far as I know, there hasn't been any specific etiquette worked out for that. There probably should be. But, for now, what's rude or not on FB and so forth, is totally up to personal opinion, except, of course, for the obvious. I don't think it's rude to post pix of your grands on FB, but someone else might - there's no rulebook to guide us.

Once again, I'm glad you respected DIL's wishes. Not much more you could do there. But please know that there are a lot of young parents who feel this way, including one of my own DDs. So, if it's any comfort, DIL was probably not trying to 'put you in your place," but just expressing something she truly feels.

Newlife, my heart goes out to you! Have to go now, but please check out the support thread for estranged GPs, if you haven't already. You are not alone. (((Hugs)))

Back again, Netwife!

Wow! "A fine mess," indeed! I'm so very sorry! It's hard enough, I'm sure, to be pushed away by one person. But when a number of family members are involved, it must be that much more painful. I can barely imagine it!

I get your suspicion that your mother and sister are avoiding you cuz they resent your moving away/being more independent. Is your mom the kind who had trouble letting go? Then this may have something to do with it and why she tends to side with your sister who, I take it, has remained closer to her. I would suggest that it may be merely the distance that has cut down on your communication - and I'm certain that's part of it - but given the rest of your post, there seems to me more going on.

In fact, it's also possible that the strain between you and them is based solely on the issues surrounding your ex. I take it there has been a lot of tension and argument over their continuing to be friendly with him. Am I right? If so, perhaps it's better if you don't have that much contact with each other, for now.

It seems to me that DD (dear daughter) has been caught in the middle of all this. Unfortunately, when you told her about your ex and your sister, that may have been more than she could bear. Still, it seems that cutting you off completely was a little dramatic. But chances are, she's just taking a TO (time out), a break/breather from the relationship with you so that she can sort out her thoughts and feelings. Has she ever done this before?

If she doesn't want any contact, right now, it doesn't surprise me that she hasn't answered your letters, etc. That would be "contact" and she's not having any. You might want to back off, for a while, and give her some space - give her a chance to miss you and so forth. I don't know... your call... If you do write to her again, you may need to apologize for speaking against her dad/giving her TMI (too much information), that is if you haven't done that already.

Meanwhile, I get why it hurt you that sister and niece visited your mother and DD, w/o contacting you. But again, given the strain on all sides, I'm afraid I understand why. I'm so deeply sorry, but unless and until these issues are resolved, I think you'll have to expect this to happen, now and then.

Anyhow, I wouldn't be too quick to run to court for visitation with your GC, especially since DD may just be taking a temporary break. If she just needs some time and you haul her into court, that may further damage your relationship with her. You may not care, as long as you get visitation with your GC. But there's no guarantee you'll win. And if you don't, the fact that you went the legal route may prompt DD to turn "temporary" into "permanent." Also, honestly, as you say, there's no guarantee the kids haven't been "turned against" you or, more likely, just told their mom's POV.

I hope all this will work itself out, eventually. But I'm afraid it's going to take time, lots of time. More (((hugs)))

Hi Wendy Sue, thank you for taking the time to reply to my message. I think the rift has come after a long and difficult journey with my daughter who has expected me to be available for her at all times since having the children. The complication is the resentment she has harboured against me for the difference in our parenting styles - I believe in the importance of setting clear boundaries but she has not allowed me to spend time with each if the GC without her presence. She is loyal to her dad and let me spend a lot of time with the oldest grandson until he was 3 - I then moved house to a different area and found this stressful as felt alone and unsupported. I was concerned about my GS health as he developed asthma and eating problems - he screamed a lot as well she said (because he missed me I believe) I continued to help my daughter but was concerned about GS health and asked her health visitor to offer support - she referred an asthma nurse and nusery nurse to give advice and treatment - unfortunately I told DD as HV said I shouldn't go behind her back - I wrote to her then to apologise but explained I did what I did with her and GS best interests at heart - the current situation is a crisis that's been waiting to happen - it's clearly been a losing battle trying to build a relationship with my DD and my GC -

Oh, newlife, I totally get why you took steps to try to ensure GS best interests for his health and treatment. I can see where I might have done the same thing myself. Hindsight says it would have been better to discuss it w/ DD first. But I'm sure you did this "in the moment" when both you and the HV were there.

Unfortunately, DD probably doesn't see that. I take it this is why she stopped letting you have time with GS, unless she was there and wouldn't let you be with the other GC "without her presence," either? I'm so sorry you're concern backfired that way.

I forgot when I was writing my earlier post to you that you also told us she blames you for an abortion she had as a teenager. It seems that there have been a number of issues, over time, and as you say this situation is just "a crisis that's been waiting to happen."

"I continued to help my daughter..."

I'm not sure if you mean financially or with childcare/babysitting. If it was financial help, I imagine she won't accept that from you anymore (perhaps just as well for you). If you mean childcare - or, maybe, babysitting that oldest GS - then I wouldn't give up hope, just yet. If, through all the issues, she once trusted you to help care for her kids, she may reach out to you again. Then again, if your gut is telling you "no," maybe not.

Thanks for your reply - sadly I have come to accept that my ex husband will always cone first in my daughter's life - especially since I had a house fire a few months ago and heard nothing from my daughter until I contacted her. My mother will have told her but she has not been there for me at all and even said it was a pity I wasn't at home when it happened .... As for my daughter trusting me at times with looking after the grabdkids, I think this has been 'managed' by my ex who has allowed this to happen because of a 'guult conplex' My daughter eve admitted that the only reason she saw me at all was as a duty but this is where the conflict lies as I said I wanted to have a relationship with her and the children.... As I've felt truly abandoned since the fire, I'm left feeling used and rejected... I also feel bad that I haven't been able to do more to be there for my oldest GS especially who has suffered also and has had to endure bullying at school - he is underweight and s a very fussy eater and was bullied by a boy who wouldn't let him eat his lunch - he has also been allowed to watch age 15 rated films and spend hours in front of a computer... All the GKs get anything they want as my ex is well paid and so is my sister - I just feel so helpless and sincerely doubt that my daughter will ever value me and my feelings - and pushing me out completely means both I and the GKs are not able to have any contact .... This is why legal action seems to be the only option open to ne...

Newlife 56.

You would have to go through a very difficult legal process to gain any access to your GC. There's lots on the Internet for you to read.
My best friends DD will have nothing to do with her or her sisters and she has now accepted that this is how it is. Like you she has tried everything and over several years but it has all come to nothing. Her DD does not want any contact with her or any of her family.
My friend has not gone down the legal route.

Why don't you see a Lawyer and get advise?. If you were to go through the courts it would cost you thousands of pounds and even then there's no guarantee of a happy outcome.

It makes me feel ashamed that I have brought such a selfish and cruel person into the world who simply doesn't care about anyone else's feelings but her own. I feel that all I've done is reproduce a clone of my ex husband even though I have really wanted to believe that she loves me underneath it all but it's really clear now that it's not and never will be the case. I was hoping that I might also get a response from someone who had gone down the legal route - I have had a free 1/2 hour session with a solicitor who led me to believe that most applications are successful ....

patriciann71

My grandchildren all favour their granddad to me. I do more for them and look after them but its him they are interested in and want attention from.
He says it is because I fuss around them too much and always want cuddles and hugs, whereas he is just 'there' without fussing around them.
When you are there just back off a bit and they will probably then want your attention.