Parental expectations

If your GD was in nursery your D would not be able to set out such hard and fast rules, especially about when the child can play outside. It sounds like she wants to retain her parental control, possibly because she feels guilty about working so much, and is more able to do it with you than she would in other childcare settings. I think I'd be inclined to go along with the food requests as long as they're not detrimental to your GD's health, and be more relaxed about the playtime rules. I'd also stop taking them to tumble tots as they need the time together alone and you need time to live your lives. Could you start this by having an appointment one week at the tumble tots time, then one the following fortnight and so on? I do understand that you don't want to fall out with your daughter, but there needs to be some distance between you to maintain a healthy relationship.

Without being too nosey, would you be willing to give some background to this arrangement?

Has your DD given reasons for her rules?
Is she asking you to provide foods or drinks that you feel are too expensive or difficult for you to get or to prepare? If so, could she provide them for you?

Food? Yes parents are entitled to have rules about what their children should and should not eat. However, as long as you are being sensible (which I'm sure you are) how you organise your day is surely up to you! As dramatictessa says, if your GO was going to a nursery, she would have to accept their activities and timings. I would have thought she'd just be grateful for the help and advantages you're giving your GD

Why don't you take her to a Creche or toddler group a couple of mornings a week that way she will still be learning and playing with other toddlers. I do think your DD is being a bit too strict with her rules .

I don't understand her reasons for only allowing playing outside at certain times.

My DD leaves her little ones with us twice a week - she knows that we are aware of the things that are important to her and that we will do our best to abide by them - but she is sensible and flexible and says "Your house, your rules." For example she knows that we both get tired sometimes and that we might stick them in front of the box for an hour - but she knows we will not put them in front of anything unsuitable. Also there are little rituals which happen with us that do not happen at home - e.g. DGD has her milk from a bottle with us even though she is 3 - it's just a bit of fun.

She would not dream of laying down rules as such; but she knows that we have seen what she and her OH do with the children and that we will do our best to steer clear of anything that she is not happy with.

She says that she is lucky to have us do this for them and trusts us to do the right things.

I can see that there might be food rules - or suggestions - but times to go out to play is a very OTT rule. She has to recognise that if she chooses to work then her children will be subject to other people's rules and other influences. It is just a fact of life.

I think that this diversity of experience is good for them. It makes them more adaptable and tolerant.

Maybe Mondays should become your rest day - I am sure you need it! - and your DD could take DGD to Tumbletots herself.

Wow. That's one heck of a lot of babysitting. It must be exhausting.

Is there a particular reason why your dd can't go to Tumbletots alone?

Thank you all. My daughter doesn't drive, that's why I take them to Tumbletots. It would take at least two buses for them to get there. Deep down I know I am doing too much and my DH and myself have little time for ourselves anymore but I have no relationship with my parents and I don't want to risk falling out with my DD and her DH.

I don't want to risk falling out with DD and her DH

sufuller I really don't blame you and I hear this many times from grandparents - not least on here. But - who are these children we have reared who can hold us to ransom in this way? I am estranged from one of my daughters and I continue to keep the door open in the hope of a possible reconciliation - so I do have some experience of the difficulties between parents and adult children, but I find it worrying that so many people are prepared to act in ways that are contrary to their own good judgement, sometimes on a daily basis (we all have to compromise and give and take sometimes, I know). Is it possible that in trying to 'keep' relationships with our children/grandchildren we are in danger of losing ourselves?

Your daughter and her husband are getting a really good deal with the current arrangement. Do you think that if you addressed your concerns with her she would remove the child? Honestly, I would have the discussion. I would not say anything critical to her about her style of parenting, but just spell out that you need to do some things in your own way and not hers and although you hope it won't come to that you will quite understand if she wants to get another carer so that you and your husband can revert to being grandparents rather than virtually full-time carers.

I don't understand the playing outside rules. Is it to do with time or weather?

Wow! Go and lie down in a darkened room! And/or go on holiday! You must be knackered! I agree with the others who have pointed out that your DD wouldn't have so much control if she were paying for your GDG to go to nursery. In terms of time, she's more your child than hers.....
I also agree with grannyactivist that we seem to have brought up a generation who have high expectations of us.
I'm going through a very challenging and painful time with my 30 year old daughter and am struggling to get back on to an even keel so I can see my two granddaughters.
GOOD LUCK sufuller. I hope you find a way through. I wish you peace, harmony, domestic bless, good health and stamina!

I don't understand about playing outside either, but I fully understand not wanting your DGD to watch Bing. It's dreadful, why Bing Bunny talks in such a babyish way is detrimental to teaching a child to speak. My DGC don't get to watch it either!

Totally agree with all the comments, especially Grannyactivist. My own personal situation is that I am a couples counsellor and psychotherapist, and have my own practice. I absolutely love what I do, and I worked and studied hard for it, only recently qualifying at the age of 61. And so I often feel guilty that I can't do more to help my daughter and daughter in law.

But they don't expect help on a regular basis. They know how important my career is. They also know that in a real emergency, I would be there for them.

I am afraid, that many children these days feel entitled to unpaid help with the grandchildren, and I think it is utterly wrong. I know of an old colleague who gave up a paid job she loved as a health care assistant, to look after her new grandchild. She was expected to have her for four days weekly, unpaid I might add! The stress ( and probably resentment that she couldn't express), caused her to have a heart attack.

So please look after yourself Sufuller. Your daughter will respect you more, and your self and your husband will benefit from the time together that should be rightfully yours to enjoy. You have done your job in raising your daughter, you have no need to do it all over again now.

Child care is horrendously expensive these days, big business taking advantage of the need for both parents to work so, where possible, grandparents do help.
As others have said, the only problem is it's so exhausting!
I agree with finding any toddlers groups/play schools that there are so that GC mixes with other children too.
You should ask what the problem is with choice of TV progs and the playing outside too. Is your garden child proof e.g. safe boundaries, no ponds? Perhaps that's a concern?
You only have these little ones for a very short time. They start school v young these days so treasure these days. As we all know life goes by in a flash.

I am a Registered Childminder, along with my dh as my assistant plus our younger dd who is also an assistant, as well as a grandmother. We look after our dgd three days a week and she joins in with the other children in our activities and eats with them. Sufuller it sounds very much what you are doing is what we do as childminders.

My dd knows the activities we do and understands that our dgd will go home dirty because of playing. I have had parents in the past who have wanted to dictate what their child should do or eat and I have had to explain to them that I will endeavour to fit in with their requests but I also need to consider the other children in my care and their established routines with me.

I think with you it is harder to get your dd to understand that what she is asking is a little too restrictive. Is it worth googling articles on how children learn through play that are aimed at parents, I know that you understand with your teaching background, and it sounds as though you have your home well set up to cater for your dgd. As the others have said your dd would not be able to dictate to nurseries or even a childminder what her dd can do or eat, although if she employed a nanny that would be different and she could. Also, an experienced nanny would perhaps work with your dd and gently persuade her to alter her requirements as her dd grew older.

I hope you can find a way of explaining to your dd that you feel that what she is expecting of you as being too restrictive without upsetting your relationship with her, enjoy your retirement and make time for yourselves.

I actually looked after my granddaughter for the first time since she was born [she's now a toddler]. I agree about the food rules; we tried to stick totally to that, but I did make up an extra bottle just in case she woke up and, seeing a stranger around became very upset and I knew a bottle of milk would calm her [I didn't need it in the end]. She isn't allowed to watch tv at all; given what fond memories most of us have of programmes such as Bagpuss, I really wish I could watch Postman Pat with her , especially as we always chatted in an educational way about what we were watching [how many sheep; what colour is his van etc].

Newquay I realise that childcare is perceived as being expensive for parents, but what needs to be remembered that the childcarers who look after peoples precious children also need to make a living. A lot of nursery staff are paid minimum wage and childminders can charge as little as £3.50 per hour per child because of the 'going rate' where they live. As I said to Sufuller I am a Registered Childminder and am fortunate to live in part of the country where my charges are higher than that, but then so are our cost of living expenses. I am 10 years away from retirement and work a 50 to 55 hour week looking after other peoples children, as do my dh & dd2 who also work with me. Yes I have a bigger setting because of that, but we also have to pay ourselves wages from which we have to pay our bills and mortgage so do not really have very much left over at the end of the month for luxuries.

The other thing to consider regarding childcare costs is that although a childminder could be earning some money whilst his/her children are young, that often means a restricted income as due to ratio regulations we are only allowed to care for 3 young children at a time including any of our own in that age range. Therefore if a childminder already has a child at home her income is automatically reduced by that child's potential fees, therefore reducing her income. A lot of childminders claim tax credits in some form or other because of their low income, but are now expected to prove to HMRC that they are looking to 'grow' their business and that it is financially viable before they can 'earn' their tax credits. This causes problems for those on a limited income due to their own children, that they are needing to claim tax credits for, as they are unable to take on more business due to Early Years ratio regulations.

The funded hours that people can claim for their 3&4 year olds are not generally funded at the same amount as we would charge a parent for the same hours, however we are expected to accept the shortfall, still cover our costs, pay ourselves wages on a loss making amount. An example for me is I charge £5.20 per hour the funded amount for 570 hours per year is £3.77. Therefore if I was to offer the full funded hours to the potentially 3 funded children that wanted to claim it, I would be losing £815.10 per child, £2445.30 annual pay cut in effect if offered for 3 children.

Perhaps you can now understand why providers are reluctant to take up the new 'free' childcare provision from September 2017 as that could potentially financially ruin a business as their overheads are not being met through the funding provided. Yes we have been promised the rate will be higher than we are currently paid, but it is down to individual LA's to set their funding rate according to a complicated funding formula and amounts currently being quoted by the government are only indicative and not definitive. Indeed they have already had to amend the amounts as providers in the trial areas have been refusing to offer the 30 hours due to the funding shortfall. We are not allowed to charge parents for the extra to cover our costs because it is 'free' childcare.

However, we are also businesses with associated costs, some of which are very high, especially the staff costs with the new pension contributions having to be included in those now.

I only wish more people would understand that childcare costs are not high, they are low in comparison to the wages paid. I know European childcare costs are often quoted as being less, but then they are more highly subsidised than ours are under different taxation and benefit systems and different costs of living.

I will come off my 'high horse' now and hope that some of you will now understand why there is so much dissent in the childcare 'industry' and why childminder numbers are dropping so dramatically recently.

As well as looking after her here I also take her to two French lessons and one music lesson a week. I value all of your comments. Thank you.

Oh and one craft session. She does mix with other children.

It seems to have become so much the norm these days that grandparents care for the children while the parents work - so much so that I believe this has led to an unrealistic expectation among young parents and a sense of entitlement to this free childcare. Equally, it puts grandparents in a difficult position, not feeling they can refuse while so many of their peers are caring for grandchildren.
I really do not agree, though, that your daughter has the right to impose so many rules on the way the child is cared for. As others have said, she would not have this much say if she used a nursery. The only way she could be that rigid is if she had a full-time live in nanny. An employee. When you pay someone to do a job then you can dictate precisely how that job should be performed.
I do so agree with grannyactivist that you should have a discussion with her about this and explain kindly but firmly that it's 'your house, your rules'.

Rules laid down by patents have to be reasonable. Children can adapt easily to differences in their day,if you're too rigid with routines it will be harder for the child in the long run. I looked after my friends son from he was a baby. I had him for 2 days a week and both his grans had him a day each and one day he had at nursery. Completely different rules and routines each day,no rules laid down by mum. He is 6 now and a lovely well rounded boy. Speak to your daughter, tell her you want to have a happier experience with your GC without worrying if your breaking the rules. If she falls out with you what will she do for child care? She is very very lucky to have you looking after her child for free. I know a few grandmas who would never give up their activities to do his. Sometimes we need a bit of educational tv if we have toddlers all day. It gives you time to put your feet up and have a cup a without getting indigestion running after a child. Tell your daughter that just doing that for a short time recharges your batteries and makes you a better carer. It will not harm your GC. Good luck and have that conversation. You brought your daughter up with your routines and rules and she's okay.

We have looked after our GS from him being about three months old (I was the same age as you) but only for two days a week. My DD thought any more than that would not only be too much for us, but would impinge on our retirement. She didn't need to work full time, but if she had, she says that she would have sent him to a childminder. I think I would have challenged her on that as I would have really hated the idea of him being with a stranger when he could have been with me. I'm sure you would hate that too, but with hindsight, I think we would have struggled to do the hours that you are doing, knowing how much more active and demanding they become as they get older; there were days when we were on our knees by teatime and we were only doing two days. The only rules DD laid down were with regard to food and drink, but she was happy with a limited amount of television (we loved Postman Pat and Thomas!). I would certainly ask why there are issues about the amount of time she spends outside. We were outside as often as possible, all year round - in the park, the woods, the countryside, where they can climb and run and expand their sensory experiences (and wear themselves out, frankly!). Also, where they can meet other children and learn to start socialising. Our GS is now nine and we are faced with the inevitable distancing that comes as they get older. We pick him up from school on our two days, but then when we get home, his priority is his friends, and nanny and grandad are background wallpaper; a safety net. Just the way it should be. Try and talk to your daughter and find out whether there is any room for manoeuvre. You can't put a pice on the service you are doing her, and I'm sure she is aware of that but if she isn't, she ought to be made aware. Please make sure you don't burn yourselves out - you have a long way to go.

Sufuller. Can sympathise as we had, /have the same situation with our dd. Timetables, lists of what to do/what not to do, phone calls and texts during the day to check on us. When other grandparents are allowed relatively free rein makes it extra hard to cope with. We Love our grandchildren very much, always put safety first and nothing untoward has ever happened, (thank goodness).
It is better now that they are no longer babies but the feelings remain. We do not want to fall out and have always Followed instructions but it causes tension and stress at times because it seems we are not trusted to use our common sense.
Can it perhaps be a control/guilt issue? I don't know but wonder whether cutting back if possible on the full on child care may be something to think about.You deserve time to yourselves ,and grandchildren, though a wonderful gift , are hard work and none of us is getting any younger. Good luck.