Where do I start?

if the young woman wished to stop a pregnancy from happening there are many 100% reliable methods she could have chosen.
Even in this era of cutbacks I presume there are clinics with kind and experienced staff available which they both could have attended.
They have chosen to do this, somehow believing other people will step up and help out.

No Trisha you don’t stand over the boy and put a condom on and don’t laugh Grannyknot of course you can never be sure but you start the education as soon as you think he may have an interest in girls, in my grandsons case he was about 14 and my daughter talked to him about how it could ruin his life to have a baby before he could support a family and about diseases, she also explained how having sex with a girl under 16 could if the parent decided to report it get him on the sex offender list He listened said little but must have taken it in as the next thing she knew he had been with his friend and got free condoms from the family planning centre
You can’t do more and maybe Sue covered all this but it’s no laughing matter to have two babies at such a young age

Madmartha, you are inspiring. Thank you

Thank you, this site is very useful

"Methinks people underestimate just how seductive a woman bent on getting pregnant can be" (quote)

Er ...so he isn't responsible then, it's all the GF's fault? Dear me .... !!! They are both equally responsible and equally in need of support as appropriate!

I am sorry that you are facing this situation Sue038

When I wrote "people underestimate just how seductive..." etc. I didn't mean to imply that the man does not share the responsibility. I meant that the thought of contraception may well go out the window - and the mind of the man involved.

Bluebelle you're right, two pregnancies isn't a laughing matter, but that's not what I was referring to.

I am sorry, I am not so forgiving as Grannyknot. This lad had been there once before and should have been absolutely determined never to be so stupid again.

I absolutely do not buy this belief that men can be so overcome with passion, lust etc that thoughts of contraception go out of their minds. To me that is just a way of letting men off the hook. Plenty of men manage to cope with their passion and contraception and do not leave trails of children behind them.

Monica I absolutely agree!!

Give a few years and your son will be on the Jeremy Kyle Show. He needs to take responsibility for his own life and however many kids he ends up with and you need to get on with yours.

I have to agree with Grannyknot about some young women being hell bent on getting pregnant. My cousin had a gf who assured him she was on the pill. He believed her and the next thing she was pregnant. They got married, rather reluctantly on his part, but he felt it was the responsible thing to do. Some years later , during a heated argument apparently, she admitted she had never been on the pill and had got pregnant deliberately. She came from a rather unhappy background and was looking for stability. Sadly the marriage didn’t last.

folly22 I'm not sure anyone is disputing that a person might be hell bent on getting pregnant. Some people ARE questioning the apparent implication in Grannyknot's comment that a man can't resist a seductive woman …she has since said that she didn't mean that though....
"Methinks people underestimate just how seductive a woman bent on getting pregnant can be" (quote)

Some comments on this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Then some wonder why they get cut off from ever seeing their grandchildren. But keep making all those ridiculous excuses for your sons and enabling their irresponsible behaviors. Smh!

Any helpful suggestions for Sue0308 then LLL?

Only useful advice would be to stop making so many excuses for her adult son whilst enabling his careless and irresponsible behavior. The fact that she mentions how her current grandchild sees her as a parent figure further says a lot. It only means that she's the one that's primarily taking care of his child, despite the childs father living in that very same home. All whilst her son plays absentee dad (if he were present the child would see him and not grandma as a parent figure) and gets all the time to date and impregnate another woman. She has chosen to bear this responsibility on behalf of her son. If her grand child is 3.5 years, this means that her son had 3.5 years to get on his feet and become independent by, getting a job, finding a separate home for him and his child, and being a father to his own child as opposed to leaving this responsibility to his mother. Saying that everyone makes mistakes and leaving it at just that is an excuse! He made a mistake yes but what did he do to learn from it? What was the corrective action? What responsibility did he bare? What consequences did he have to endure? Probably none for instead of telling his mother what upcoming responsibilities he'd now have as a father, he instead chose to "whisper it in her ear," that he'd once again impregnated someone else, and left this as her sole problem to worry about. Question is what does HE not YOU plan to do about it? And how many more of his children do you plan to raise if he can't practice safe sex?

By taking over the care of GC and housing DS and his GF you are excusing him from taking responsibility for his own life. He is working and an adult, man up and get on with it.
I really think it would be unwise to finance a home for a DS that is unable to control his own life, you could end up with serious problems.

I wish you all the best Sue0308. What a worry for you both. However I am sure your two GC will bring you much love and happiness.

LiveLaughLove why on earth have you mentioned cut off in this thread ...the experience of that for others, for whatever reason, is just not helpful to this poster is it!

Your points about any support being to help HIM take responsibility for his own actions etc are valid but I think it is important not to ignore the OPs comment about him dealing with mental health issues, which puts some context to how this difficult and unfortunate situation has arisen regarding the first grandchild!! And possibly impacts on how the OP moves forward in supporting her son!

"LiveLaughLove why on earth have you mentioned cut off in this thread."

If anyone felt that it was in their place to insinuate/have any opinion/open a discussion or even mention the word "abortion," to a pregnant mother don't you think that common sense would dictate the possibility of them being cut off from that childs life? Or why would anyone assume that any mother would want grandma to later in life see and visit with their child whom they'd initially wanted killed through abortion? Or how would comments relating to that not be absolutely ridiculous and potentially lead to future cut offs unless we are reading very different comments on the same thread?

Every mother has a right to keep her child without having anyone trying and whisper the idea of abortion into her ear. That's NOT a grandparents place to even have an opinion over irrespective of their views on abortion. Not her body, not her child, not her opinion to voice anything on abortion and thats what i was warning her about despite some ridiculous comments, for if she followed such advice and mentioned abortion to a 18 year old, don't you think this would build resentment? And future cut offs from seeing her grandchild? Or do you share those same opinions?

But you seem to still be so sensitive about that word, "cut off,." It may be a trigger for you idk but its the plain truth. Or isn't it?

"it is important not to ignore the OPs comment about him dealing with mental health issues, which puts some context to how this difficult and unfortunate situation has arisen regarding the first grandchild!! And possibly impacts on how the OP moves forward in supporting her son!"

True, but OP admits that council lists were so long for homes. Meaning that she/they obviously considered this idea enough to look into any availiable council housing. She obviously wouldn't have done this if her sons mental health prohibited him in any way from being responsible, self functioning and independent adult. So if she had considered this as an option for him to take care of his two children in council housing - then it only means that he 100% is capable of taking care of his children on his own (inspite of his mental health issues) and should have beared his parental responsibilities so that his child can view him and not his grandparents, as a parent figure.

I definitely feel horrible for the OP and understand how dissappointing this may be for her, but one can't continue to enable dependency and expect to see any changes. What are his short term and long term goals? What roles does he plan to play as a father of two? Does he need parental classes? Can he get a job and move out within a specified timeline? What are his career goals? Is he going to college and working halftime? In a 24 hour day, how does he effectively and productively spend his time? Does he need a talk on sex education, and preventative measures that he can take? Is he informed on sexually transmitted diseases, and how to protect himself?

These are things that need to be brought to his attention, but if she doesn't let him learn how to function on his own, she will end up taking care of baby number two plus every other baby that subsequently comes in. Then never have her own plans and goals met for she'd busy be fulfilling his.

What she shouldn't ever underestimate is the fact that some adult children can be extremely selfish and too self absorbed to remotely be bothered by the manner in which their personal lifestyle and poor decisions affect others.

LLL ...I have read your first reply several times and frankly it does not make any sense to me ...in fact I think it is a complicated exercise in not answering the question.

I am not in the least bit sensitive about cut off - I am not actually CO!! My question was simply why you felt it was relevant to mention it. You have explained your thinking,. Frankly your original comments did not suggest any of that as a consideration for the OP. You original comment was a slightly sarcastic and some what annoyed/sensitive comment about "..Then some wonder why they get cut off from ever seeing their grandchildren..!!"

No I think parents and adult children can have adult and supportive discussions about very sensitive subjects including abortion if necessary without the possibility of CO being a result ...even for the child concerned by the mother concerned!! in fact I know of two cases where CO has not occurred in those circumstances. Of course there will be cases where it has!!

Yes obviously alternative housing options were considered despite his mental health issues! My point was simply to say that I agreed with you that HE needs to be taking responsibility and that his parents support needs to be directed to that taking into account those mental health issues!!!

It is a pity LLL that your first posts do not reflect a little more of your understanding of the OPs point of view (quote *I definitely feel horrible for the OP and understand how disappointing this may be for her, *) whilst also giving some very sound advice, as you sometimes do in my view. Unfortunately the apparent lack of understanding and compassion (because it isn't acknowledged as part of your post) means that your advice is less likely to be noted and taken on board!

Advice is no good unless the listener can hear; whether we like it or not, helping the listener to hear is often the art in giving the advice!!

Sigh Madgran77, its pretty obvious that you have more personal issues with me from my last post where I chose not to engage with you and will do the same on here too. You always gear to attack every single post I make and quite honestly I don't have time for you. Next time you see my posts just ignore it for its quite evident that you are committed to misunderstanding and finding fault in EVERYTHING I say. Weird how someone else on here shared similar sentiments to mines and you whole heartedly agreed with them but somehow insist on going on a back and forth with me when this post isn't even about you. I'M ENTITLED TO MY OPINION JUST LIKE YOU ARE, so get over it and stop clawing yourself on every single post that I make. Or do you think I'll change my opinion cause of you? In fact why do you choose to insist that my advice isn't good or helpful? Are you the OP? I'm sure she's adult enough to discern what's good for her and what isn't. Where was all this armour on the abortion posts? Or does your silence on that advocate for an 18 year old to abort against her will? But here you are winning about my post! SMH! Just look for something else to occupy yourself with that doesn't involve responding to my post for we've been down this road before and you still seem angry and bitter months later.

"Advice is no good unless the listener can hear; whether we like it or not, helping the listener to hear is often the art in giving the advice!"

Totally agree, now kindly practice what you've preached!!!!!!!

LLL I have absolutely no issue with you regarding your last posts; I had no recollection of them until you mentioned them! I also have no idea why I am making you so angry! I am genuinely trying to engage in a discussion!

I said that I DO agree with many of the points you made just as I agreed with the other poster but you seem to have missed that in my post. Ofcourse you have a right to your opinion, I don't think I suggested that you don't! I didn't say your advice was not helpful , just that how its expressed sometimes misses out your understanding and sympathy about the circumstances that in my view help someone to hear the good advice.

I don't expect a reply to this. Lets move on.

I hope the OP finds a way through

So passive-aggressive it hurts. . And don't tell me I'm angry! When that's an emotion that you CHOSE to impose on my posts whilst reading my post. Same way you chose to impose YOUR emotions such as a lack of understanding and compassion - your emotions not mines! So stop trying to generealize these emotions across the board when you're the one that interpreted them that way. .


But I totally Love how you conveniently play the, " I don't remember game," when its very obvious that you DO remember and DO have a personal problem with the poster and NOT the post. Like I said you wholeheartedly AGREED with other posters that shared the SAME sentiments as mines. But since you have some personal issue with me from our last exchange (which I really don't care about for I don't even know you, or want to know you, but feel the need to address for you're the one thats obsessively stalking my posts - and not vice versa), you chose to pick on similar sentiments that you'd earlier agreed with. #flipflop#.

Your so fast to condemn anothers posts and dismiss it with your self imposed emotuions. But who told you that your posts are the ONLY helpful, compassionate and understanding ones with respect to what the OP addressed? . If this were the OP saying this, I'd definitely understand. But there you go again imposing your emotions on what would best suit the OP. Did she tell you herself or is this something you made a non-informed decision on?

Bottom line is -if you don't see me commenting on your OP related posts, or a post that does NOT pertain to you, I'd suggest that you stay out of it and simply ignore it. (Like I've maturely ignored all of yours. As opposed to immaturely stalking them and childishly clawing them out for no apparent reason). If so then we can definitely move on. If not, such exchanges are bound to continue! It shouldn't be difficult to keep to your own lane, but from being such a busy body on ALL of my posts the last time, I'm sure that this may be a very difficult task for you to accomplish.

Also funny how you dish out advice that you can't even adhere to. What happened to you saying, "Advice is no good unless the listener can hear; whether we like it or not, helping the listener to hear is often the art in giving the advice!" Or do you have a problem following your own advice? But again I almost forgot that you always love to have the very last word, then type things like "I don't expect a reply to this. Lets move on." Why can't you simply refrain from responding and move on as opposed to telling others to do so?

Um....I give up trying to explain!! And again apologies to the OP for a completely unintended "bunfight] !