Dil won’t let me be grandma

why would anyone want to do nappy changing if they don't have to?

Beats me, Jamila. I’ve had to change a couple of corkers today. DSIL is working from home and was first to spot the most fragrant one. He fetched me the changing mat.

Maybe there needs to be more deference towards parents instead of automatically treating them as if they were 'anyone' else.

I don't make this comment lightly and I suspect I may get a lot of push back. I'm putting my thoughts out there because I was reminded of my own mother and what I happen to know about the days surrounding my own birth.

It seems that as my mum approached her due date, her paternal grandmother (my great grandma) arbitrarily took it upon herself to pack her bags and show up on her doorstep. This was almost a month before I was born. My mother was going to need a lot of help she said and she was up to the task. You see, 73 years ago, adult children had to be respectful towards their elders and my mother welcomed her with open arms even though she was taken by surprise.

Telling her to 'take a hike' or to 'mind her own business' would have been unheard of in those days. Once she settled in however, my mum soon realized that she no longer had to knock herself out over housework. My other grandmother (mum's mother) and her mother in law, (great grandma) took care of my mom between the two of them. Great grandma kept house, cooked meals and kept everything humming, while my maternal grandmother sewed baby clothes, knitted blankets and made quilts. When the time came, my dad was at work, so it was my great grandma who called the cab.

After I was born, she continued to help with the household, so my mum could look after me. When I was six weeks old, she packed her bags and bid everyone farewell. I have a faded picture of her somewhere with me in her arms on the day they came home from the hospital.
About two years later, she visited again, this time with great grandpa. I don't actually remember HER but I do remember being held by someone familiar and being loved very much. She died when I was four years old.

I can't help but wonder how different things would have been if my mother had told her to take a hike.

Beats me, Jamila. I’ve had to change a couple of corkers today. DSIL is working from home and was first to spot the most fragrant one. He fetched me the changing mat.

and if you hand them a toy to play with to keep their fingers out of the mess, make sure it's a plastic, washable one
Singing lots of jolly songs at the same time

Ah but the difference willa was that she was there to take care of your mother, not to take possssion of you, demanding her “rights” as a grandmother and taking you away from your mother so that she could have her “alone time”.

And once your mother was fit and well she packed her bags and left her to enjoy her new baby.

I find all this “alone time” thing very odd. Quite possessive in fact. Why would you want to take a baby away from it’s mother? How can it be beneficial for a baby to be seperated from its mother? Nature meant them to be together. Necessary sometimes maybe.

And whatwould you be doing with a baby that you couldn’t do if its mother was around? If you say but if she’s there the baby wants her and not me, well isn’t what the baby wants the most important thing?

I agree with Eglantine - she was there to help and allow your mother to look after you and bond with you.

After I was born, she continued to help with the household, so my mum could look after me.

She knew what was needed and didn't try to take over the maternal role.

Yes - that is a different scenario, where Grandma kept the household ticking along so Mum could have time with her baby.

Willa I would have told declined my mom or my MILs offer of staying with me when I had DD, it wasn't needed because I had DP there to do the housework. When DD was born he took 2 weeks paternity (like the vast majority of men in the U.K.) and he did most of the nights with DD for those two weeks and he did all of the cooking and housework so I could rest. After he went back to work he continued to do any housework I didn't get around to doing in the day. Now, I know all men aren't like that but the point is that there are two parents, if they are both pulling their weight then the baby and house are taken care of without expecting grandparents to help.

Also, it's a lovely situation if everyone gets on and I'm sure helps a lot, but what if your mom had hated having her MiL or her own mother there? Should she have just put up with it to 'respect her elders'? Surely when a woman has just given birth, is hormonal and dealing with some of the unpleasant after effects of childbirth her feelings should be priority? She shouldn't made to be uncomfortable in her own home, or feel pushed out with her child just because others want to help. There's also so much that has changes across generations, my parents kept giving suggestions that directly contradicted safe sleeping guidelines and rolled their eyes when I explained that. I know that lots of children survived sleeping on their front or side or with cot bumpers but I just wasn't prepared to risk it, I wasn't going to defer to them just because they had done it before.

The best thing my MIL did, which ensured that I could happily have her visit was to not offer advice and when we discussed something that had changed she accepted it without making me feel like an over paranoid first time mother.

I agree Eglantine

it wasn't needed because I had DP there to do the housework. When DD was born he took 2 weeks paternity (like the vast majority of men in the U.K.) and he did most of the nights with DD for those two weeks and he did all of the cooking and housework so I could rest
There was no such thing as paternity leave until 2003 Newmom

If, of course, their husbands were not working away as mine was, they may have been able to have a couple of days off work or even take a week of their meagre (in those days) annual leave.

^ my parents kept giving suggestions that directly contradicted safe sleeping guidelines and rolled their eyes when I explained that. I know that lots of children survived sleeping on their front or side or with cot bumpers but I just wasn't prepared to risk it, I wasn't going to defer to them just because they had done it before.^
well, there's your answer - willa's grandmothers didn't do that. Nor did my DM.

Jalima I understand not everyone has paternity leave or parents or in-laws, I was just thinking about the flip side of a situation like that in Willas post. It's great if everyone gets on and wants help from family, but in situations like the OPs that clearly wouldn't work.

Maybe there needs to be more deference towards parents instead of automatically treating them as if they were 'anyone' else

That's fine if your parents are supportive and helpful. But if they aren't then if you wouldn't take overbearing, critical behaviour off anyone else then why would you take it from the people who are supposed to support you, just because they are family. I was thinking about Willas post in terms of situations like the OPs.

Jalima, Eglantine, Newmom, Luckygirl and Madgran,

When my GC were infants, I seldom got the chance to bathe, dress or feed them due to geographical distance. I recall after my middle daughter's second baby (a girl), I was there early enough to assist with her first bath and three days later we were heading back home.

When same GD made her First Communion this past May, her mum and I were all over her like (two) fairy Godmothers dressing Cinderella. It was so much fun for the three of us and my granddaughter looked like a princess!

I think that's what some Grandma's are missing and that's what they mean by wanting 'alone' time ....... but no matter, when grandmothers become estranged, it's very sad.

I also found it amusing that my great gran got a pass even though she moved into her pregnant granddaughter's apartment (unannounced and without anyone's permission) for two whole months. I guess she redeemed herself because she was helpful (only after the fact, however). If one of our young mums sought advice on this forum today, (about her own grandma showing up on the porch)......can you imagine the responses?

Both of my grandmothers have early dementia and are physically frail. If I find either of them on my doorstep, I am calling my parents immediately and I am not joking.

As for the intimate care issue, not every grandma is a sweet old lady. Both my brother and my brother in law made me promise during my first pregnancy that the baby would never be left unsupervised with either grandmother, or given intimate care by either. I know exactly why my brother asked that of me, and I trust my brother in law completely. I did not ask his reasons but have done as he requested.

This does not pertain to OP specifically, but sometimes parents have their own, good, reasons for keeping their little ones close. My own mother certainly is not a safe person to have any ‘alone time’.

I may come off as rude in my posts - I guess it is my desperation to be a part of the baby’s life. I always imagined i would play a bigger role - being asked to babysit, I thought I could save them money by doing childcare but I get rejected at every corner.

Now dil is saying she won’t be going on family vacation with us next year when her and my son have come along in years past. I just found out rather than spending a week together we are only getting two days with them.

It’s so frustrating to be shot down all the time when all I want to do is be a grandmother.

It is frustrating. I too imagined I would play a bigger part in my grandsons life but quickly learned to lower my expectations,be grateful for the things you do have .It is the price we pay for having sons, dil's parents will come first and your son will put his wife's wishes first. Re the family vacation ,their family has changed and maybe they want to have a vacation as a family now and two days will be more than a lot of mother in laws get. My grandson will be two in March and I have never spent more than a few hours with him but I do see him and am grateful for that It is hard not to be jealous when her parents spend more time with him but I am working on it and so should you. You have to accept the way things are and not feel bitter. You are part of your grandchild's life just not in the way you dreamed of

Sadgranma, your response is still the same. You appear to have learnt nothing from this very long and thoughtful thread. You "imagined you would play a bigger role." as granma. What you call desperation many would see as selfishness and anger because you aren't getting your own way.

Quite apart from your aggrieved feelings about ONLY spending the afternoon and evening of Christmas Day with your grandchild instead of the whole day as YOU planned, your son and daughter in law have invited you to spend two days of the family holiday with them next year. Instead of being appreciative of the two days offered you are peeved because it isn't the whole week that YOU planned! Frankly I think they are amazing to include you in their holiday plans at all.

YOU wrote your granma script without reference to anybody else and thought only about what YOU wanted and envisaged. Unfortunately you have overlooked the fact that you are not the central character in this story anymore, you now play a minor supporting role. Note the important phrase 'supporting role' not star turn. Your son and daughter in law are the main players in their personal family story not you.

Nothing stays the same, life changes, relationships evolve. If you are unable to adapt to those changes you will be left behind. You need to develop a life of your own in this next phase of your life cycle not desperately trying to cling to and dominate your son and his family's life.

Unfortunately you will probably continue to be a very Sadgranma because you seem unable to see anything from any perspective except your own. There are some pretty awful mother in law stories on GN but you are up there with some of the worst. My sympathies are entirely with your poor son and long suffering daughter in law.

Brilliant post Apricity you said exactly what I would have Look to your self to make changes Sadgramma not others to fit round YOU all the time
You have SO much more than many

Good, pertinent post Apricity
sadgranma - you need to read Apricity’s post slowly and carefully and think about it. You haven’t changed your views at all throughout this thread, have you? You need to really change your thinking - and to stop moaning about what you perceive as an unfair situation. You have a new grandchild and you see him a fair amount. Having grandchildren is a joy - but you need to have a life beyond that too. Do you still work? What are your interests?
Sit down with a cup of tea, quietly, at some point today and think carefully about what people have been good enough to take the time to post here - if you still feel self righteous, read the “estrangement” thread
THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT TO CHANGE THIS SITUATION FOR THE BETTER FOR EVERYONE

I do feel sad for you because you seem set on such a self destructive path .
I didn’t have a good relationship with my MIL to the extent that we moved away from family to get away from her interfering but we went home for a weekend every month and she visited often with the boys going to stay without us when they were old enough .
Now a granny and great grandmother myself I have been careful not to repeat her mistakes and have good relationships with my SIL s DILs GSIL and GDIN
I am there when they need me and they include me in family events but the bottom line is when THEY need me and I don’t see it as my right to have them put my needs first .Yesterday I spent time discussing with my GDIL whether it was time to start weening her youngest son . We laughed a lot and talked about how things had changed since I brought up my sons and how I used to feed her husband as a tot but I also kept reminding her that he is her third child and that she knows him best .
I guess what I am trying to say is respect is a two way thing and if you want your DIL to respect you maybe you need to think about whether you are treating her with respect too and maybe one day you might actually come to like each other .

@Apricity post is perfect. It is what I would have written (probably a bit less eloquently)!
You are getting most of Christmas day and a 1/3 of their family holiday week! Be happy! Be grateful! Also you say that Dil parents have more time but I assume they aren't getting Christmas if you have basically the whole day? Do you wonder if they could be jealous of you for that? Think of everyone else involved as well as yourself? Be kind to your daughter in law! You also said you can only hold the baby for 20-30 minutes at a time! Be thankful? Baby must be under 6 months to be held this long as any older they would be wriggling and needing to be put down to wander. This is a small baby who still needs their mother and father. You will be a grandma for more than these first few months so please let the parents get settled before getting upset that you want to change nappies ect. Also have a think, when you had given birth did you give anyone your newborn son for 30 minutes? It is along time for a new parent.

willa I hope you didn’t think my reply to you was critical. It wasn’t meant to be. More of a reflection on what GD do that is really helpful and leads them to be included and part of a family.

As others have said, it’s the difference between caring for others and trying to meet their needs or, like the OP, being totally fixed on your own wants. I won’t even say needs there.

I think your family time sounds lovely. Enjoy?

. I always imagined I would play a bigger role

This says it all.
We can all imagine in advance what situations in our life we hope may be like - marriage, career whatever, but reality is something else.
You need to let this young family have their own life, whether that is Christmas morning or their annual holiday without complaining or resenting it.
It sounds as if you do not have much of a life of your own and that needs rectifying while you are still able.
Noone chooses to come across as overbearing or needy but only you can sort this.

Also an added point after reading a bit more, my mil actually had a bit of a problem when I was pregnant, it got to the point multiple midwives advised me to leave after witnessing her... (i don't know if people remember my other post where I went to hospital and she came over unnanounced when I got home saying the blood loss was a good thing as hopefully had helped me lose weight!) Even after all this, my husband spoke to her and made her apologise and I see her once a week with baby, becuase my husband insisted. Do not blame daughter in laws! You're son will fight for you if he wants to! It does annoy me when DIL are always blamed for lack of contact!

I have a very overbearing nature however when my daughter had my GD i took a major step back which was so difficult. I know my daughter is her mother and I have to restrain myself. The result...a lovely relationship with my daughter and GD. I can see her when i want they will even let me have her when she is meant to be at the minders. All because i "know my place" And of course this is how i should be. I adore my GD and both daughter and SIL know this and i have zero issues. I think had i been pushy and judgmental things would be different

I think you also need to acknowledge that (and I know gransnet and mumsnet hate this) but the maternal grandparents do end up more involved.

When you have a baby you gravitate towards your own mum and it looks like this is also what has happened.

You need to step back and I think actually apologise to you DIL. I think that would go a really long way to building bridges.

As for the childcare, I know a lot of people who prefer to send their child to a nursery. I did when my MIL was more than willing to do it because I wanted my child to have that social aspect as well as the structured learning times they had and she benefited from it so much.

In relation to the holiday, I think you need to accept that those may be occasions now that they want to do things as a smaller unit.