Asd/aspergers

How old is your grandson, Maryrose ?

Hi Ellan,he will be 5 in a few weeks.

maryrose Who is it that suspects he may have this type of Autism?

Buffybee, his playgroup before he started school noticed this trait in him and suggested it. School also think he has asd/aspergers tendencies. We always have thought he is exceptionally bright with reading and language,and I know that this can be a sign of being on the spectrum.

I've never heard of this particular type of autism. That said, with Asperger's syndrome, children often display a very high IQ and they may have a very advanced vocabulary. My husband has high-functioning autism and is very intelligent.

I heard recently that what we are learning about autism is that there is major variation along the spectrum. There isn't a sort of "typical" autistic child.

Yes, I have dealt with this. However, I think any of these ''labels' must be used with caution. The most important thing is that he is assessed properly - by the local Child Development Centre and / or the Education Psychology Service.
If you are fortunate, you may have staff attached to either of these services who can advise on handling his behaviour.

Although I think that proper assessment is very important, to help with handling his behaviour, it is also worth remembering that as he matures, he should, with help, be able to handle such situations rather better.

I hope that the meeting is helpful - 'normal' ways of handling such children don't always work because they don't always respond to traditional 'treats & sanctions'. I hope that the school has staff who can help.
Usually such children like 'order' and they like to be forewarned "I shall be blowing the whistle soon, that means you line up to go into school' - but really, it all needs tailoring to the individual child.

Thankyou Nannarose, DD does use this forwarning tactic at home, not always successful. I just hope that the SENCO at his school is experienced enough to deal with him. Hopefully as he matures he will be able to handle his emotions better, as you say.

Sounds just what an intelligent 5 year old might do if an adult stops him having fun? just saying
Boys are very often later emotionally maturing, 5 s very young to expect mature behaviour

Lots of children will kick off if asked to do something that they don't want to do whether at school or not it makes no difference. It's normal.

One of my GGC has ADHD which was diagnosed 5 years ago when she was 5, but she was a handful in mainstream school as she used to have severe meltdowns, was assessed by the psychologist and now attends a school for those with similar issues and she's medicated too.

A far cry from the " behaviour " of your GS who might just get easily bored if he's intelligent. If that's the case the staff should try him in the next class up to see how he gets on.
It takes years to get a diagnosis, though aspergers doesn't usually manifest itself until about 7/8.

"pathological demand avoidance".
What does that mean? Who on earth said that, MaryRose?

It is a type of autism,
Fennel, described on the autistic society website. I hadn't heard of it before.

I have heard of it before too. Many people don’t like children being labelled and I can understand that.
I do think it helps to know what sort of problems a child may have and then be able to assist the child in overcoming the problems or not getting cross with them for displaying behaviours they have no control over.

I am all for having a diagnosis, I am not for schools or others unqualified in this field self-diagnosing a child's problems before they have been seen by the school psychological service.

I'd never heard of it until yesterday when there was a report on, I think, BBC West about a child who apparently has this.

It all came to a head yesterday when he hit a dinner lady because he didn't want to come in from playtime. He often displays avoidance tactics when he doesnt want to do something but is not normally agressive.

I just wonder if starting school at age 4 is much too young.

My children were very adept at using avoidance tactics when they didn't want to do something but none were on the autistic spectrum.

Yes, my DGS has PDA and believe me it’s hard to live with.
Autistic children with this (and other things) don’t choose to be difficult!
Transitioning from one place to another or one activity to another causes them stress and anxiety.
Little ones lash out because they can’t make adults understand how they feel.It gets a bit better as they get older
But never goes away completely.

I currently teach, 1:1 , a 9yr old with an ASD diagnosis. He is a charming lad, though not particularly able.

His 'avoidance' tactics are strong & very different and more persistent from those my own children used!

I need to be several steps ahead to make sure he actually does some learning. I think it can be hard sometimes to discern what is the ASD behaviour and what has developed additionally because adults want to appease and limit melt downs (not a criticism .. I totally understand how and why this happens and I do it too!)

In my experience most 4/5 yr olds learn to fit in with school routines quite quickly (even if many are unnecessary /inappropriate). Those with specific needs find it harder..and may do so at whatever age they started school.

Experienced teachers can often spot children who have additional needs quite quickly. If the OPs DGS is otherwise developing well it may not be a huge issue to help him cope with being in school & its routines.

Part of the 'learning' that school offers is how to be part of a bigger group, to socialise, share, compromise and follow rules etc.

This is the aspect many children with ASD find the hardest to do.

Thankyou all for your comments. DD had meeting with SENCO yesterday. She thinks he has slight asd tendencies but not to cause concern now. They are putting strategies in place to help with lunch times,and also gave DD some advice on helping him deal with emotions. He is a loving,cuddly child but finds taking turns and sharing hard.We are all happier now.

PECS your post reminded me of when, after I retired, I worked with a Downs boy, teaching him to read. He was about 12 at the time, lively and cheeky and very stubborn.
Sometimes he refused point blank to read at all. So I said alright, I'll read. Which I did, but made deliberate mistakes, or hesitated over a word, and he jumped in straight away to correct me. He became the teacher.
Perhaps he had PDA too.

PDA is pretty contentious as a diagnosis!

Could you explain what is contentious about it, please, jane10? Genuine enquiry.

As I'm on the board, at the moment, I'll say that some people think (as some posters have indicated) that it's a way of saying 'doesn't like to do as they're told'.
I think, when you see it, it really is different. However, all forms of autism are 'developmental disorders' which means they are not easy to diagnose early. Some of the most difficult are children whose development in one field is way ahead or behind another. So an intellectually intelligent child, who is immature emotionally may behave like this. I personally think that help for such children should be available on the basis of their needs, not on 'diagnosis', but that is not how our current system works.
I would caution parents to take the diagnosis and the help on offer, but keep an open mind as to how things may come out eventually. It is important to use a diagnosis / label as a helpful way to think about dealing with the child.

Nannarose

I agree with you. This is why I say a label is a bit of a double-edged sword. It can be very tempting to write the child's behaviour off as being "all part of the disorder" and to view every aspect of the child as being due to the disorder. OTOH, "labels" can be helpful in that they are often required in order for parents and children to access assistance and services.

Baggs. PDA is a subject that I could lecture on rather than try to summarise in a forum like this. Google it? It was first described by Dr Elizabeth Newsome but her findings could not be replicated by other clinicians.
ASD is a huge subject. Diagnosis should only be carried out by qualified professionals. There are diagnostic standards and clear training requirements for professionals carrying out diagnostic assessment. Post diagnosis there are many recommendations. Implementation, however, can be a post code lottery!