Feel it is so sad

Yes i liked the prams/push chairs that were facing you too as you can constantly talk to the child,and point things out,but as they get a bit older& go in the forward facing ones you can still talk to them& lean over or around sides to speak or point things out to a child.the young mums dont often seem to bother these days..

Some of the games that my DGC play on DDil's phone are useful and instructive - they need a degree of skill and teach them a variety of useful information. However, I do feel strongly that they spend too much time using ipads and watching TV, often at the expense of simple and rewarding human contact. When they visit me there are no ipads, we play board games together, go for walks, feed the ducks, they use playdo and do craft work, and generally seem quite bright and happy with what I offer. That said of course I have them for a couple of days - and they go home!

I used to converse with my GCs when they were young. I remember pointing out a field of cows from the top deck of a bus. It was only afterwards that I remembered the children were not with me! I received a few strange looks.

I don't share your alarm at "devices" although as an ex-teacher I became aware of some issues with language development because either children weren't talked to or (in my affluent area) they spent most of their times with au pairs who were not fluent in English. However there have always been parents who do not encourage communication and as a grandparent I try to provide activities such as games/chess/anything that encourages interaction between my grandchildren and I and they respond with some enthusiasm (usually) because most children love attention and many parents are too busy to provide it. Making the role of grandparent very important I feel.

What strikes me as odd here, is it’s the grandparents. It’s bad enough when you don’t see young mums engaging with their children. They could be forgiven though, because it may be the first chance they’ve had to go on their phones or whatever, and they’ve spent the rest of the day engaging behind closed doors. Presumably the grandparents time is much shorter, you’d think they would want to engage more. We don’t always know. It could be they’re the main carers, and the grandchildren are with them all the time. The time on the train, or in the library may have been the only quiet they’d had all day!

Too much reliance is placed on gadgets when children are travelling. We always used to play games and have competitions about what we could see around us. Think it's such a wasted opportunity when you see children on their machines when there's so much to look at around them. Easy way out I think. Though there are more families travelling with just one adult so that could make it harder.

We recently went out for a family meal, my very young grandson (just 2) had a little programme playing very quietly on a mobile phone during the meal and it helped him to be quiet and sit still. I thought this very strange to do but understood the reasons once they were explained to me. The play area was directly next to us and he wanted to be in there, he has autism but managed to sit through entire meal behaving nicely before then being allowed to use the play area as a reward. He'll learn to join in conversation when he's older but at moment his presence at family get togethers is plenty and an absolute joy.

It doesn't help that all the Mums are 10 year olds, or is that just me!

One of the best times I loved was when I was walking my son to and from school - on the way there we could stop and watch out for squirrels and birds and find the hole in one fence that had been made for the hedgehogs. On the way back he was telling me about what he had done at school and about his friends and I could also catch up with other mums and form friendships.
From when he was very young - what a treat to take him on a bus and look at what we could see and as he got older, to go upstairs if we had a double decker!
I just feel sorry for any relatives ,be they parents or grandparents that miss out on the time to do things like this. Children don't necessarily need to be taken somewhere everyday, they need just to be able to look and wonder and talk!

@paddyanne I have been saying this about prams etc facing the 'wrong' way for years. I talked and sang to both my children facing me in their fabulous maroon Fleur de Lyse Silver Cross pram (courtesy of my mum) one in the pram and one on the seat in front. I think those 'children as objects for display' were the start of large scale alienation under this definition: "Humans are only connected to each other as buyers and sellers of commodities..." Leonard Rizada on Prezi

I do agree with much of what you say, but then some quiet time is always good, and maybe the grandfather is of an era when it wasn’t done to talk except in a whisper in libraries.

What I once found really sad when working at my local library, was when a mother forcibly dragged her young son of maybe 7 away - he was protesting and very upset - from the non-fiction book he’d been utterly engrossed in, maybe creepy crawlies or dinosaurs, ‘...because you’ve got to read some proper books!’ By which she meant fiction.

I really felt like saying, ‘Leave him alone! If he’s enjoying ANY book, what on earth does it matter what it is?’
Especially when boys are so often less likely than girls to want to read for pleasure at all.

My eldest daughter loived racing around like a maniac and chattered none-stop, My youngest daughter loved playing games on our old Amstrad and did so a lot when I was busy. Now in their mid 30's, they both have university degrees (the youngest has more letters after her name than in it!), They have good jobs, own their own homes and we have good mum/daughter relationships. I have no qualms therefore when my eldest daughter lets my grandchildren play games on her phone in a restaurant to stop them annoying other diners as I know that the next day they will be jumping in muddy puddles like Peppa Pig, meeting other children at soft-play or petting animals at a local farm and having fun. It is all a matter of balance and these days computers have a part to play.

I think it is the children's own choice to spend hours on their gadgets. I pick my 3 younger GC ( 5,8 & 10)up from school on Fridays. I chatter with them all the way home & they tell me what they have been doing all week etc. It's lovely,
Then when we get home they have a drink & a biscuit & all sit in a row on their sofa glued to their i pads etc. & I can't get a word out of them!!
As Mum is home & sometimes Dad by then too I can't insist they don't play with their tablets & I am chatting to their parents but it is a pity. To be fair the eldest is soon getting ready to go to Scouts & they have to have dinner before then but I think they really love playing on their gadgets & if I'm honest I too have a couple of iPads at home & I also play games on them - which I really enjoy to pass the time.
DH has always got his face glued to his phone or tablet so it's not just the younger generation.

I think there has to be a balance and as others have said it isn't good to be constantly bombarding children with meaningful facts and conversations, they need time to acquire their own experiences and knowledge.
As a child I remember just letting the world go by around me with little interaction, as a teenager I didn't really care about explanations on the environment or society, as a university student I couldn't always appreciate discussions about (boring) literature or nature, and as a teacher I often felt I was just going through the paces imparting facts just to tick off learning skills.
It is only now in my final stage that I realise I was actually processing all these things along the way and those experiences have actually made me the person I am. Children on gadgets these days are only doing the same, that's just the way it is.

I agree it’s very important to interact with children, but how do you know what happened before and after these situations, how can you possibly judge, I don’t find that sad at all, grandparent coming into library and didn’t speak and left after 20 mins, he sat and read his paper.She looked at books, wow, so very sad

I agree entirely, OP. Something similar happened to me on a long train journey. Early in the journey the table opposite mine ( the usual 4 seats around a table, but the train was not very full) there was a father and his son who might have been 5 or 6. the father had brought nothing for his son to read or play with and after a while gave the boy his phone, which didn't occupy him for long. The child was then berated for wriggling, being difficult etc. I was quite shocked to gather from the little conversation there was that the father was a teacher!
A little while later a young woman with a little girl of a similar age came and sat opposite me, she had some books and a drawing pad and the little girl read to her mother and then discussed the characters in the book, she went on to draw pictures for a new story about them - the looked a much happier pair and the child behaved perfectly.

I agree that children will go on their phones, tablets or computers if left to their own devices, but when my grandchildren come to stay we do knitting, sewing (they love making clothes for Barbie) enjoy playing board games and going out walking our dog (they have a cat at home). Their parents do limit them to time on the internet & we stick to their rules whilst their here.

A couple of days ago I saw a young woman with a child of about 3 waiting in a bus shelter. She was scrolling on her phone, and suddenly the child ran forward and nearly went under a car. The woman, thankfully, grabbed the child, and then swore at the driver.

One of the saddest sights for me that stayed with me was at section for tropical fish in a nearby garden centre, 5 year old full of awe and wonder looking at some of the amazing fish, repeatedly to his mum "mum look at these fish", if he said it once he said it about 10 times, sadly to fall on deaf ears whilst mum was scrolling through phone. His frustration in wanting her to look up and share that moment with him was palpable, just a few seconds of engagement, but sadly she couldn't give him that

Totally agree. It's such a shame, and goodness knows how this is building up trouble mentally for the future of these children.
At least in the first scenario you mentioned, grandad was with his grandchild in an environment which actively encourages reading real books, not electronic ones, and they were sharing that quiet reading time together. Maybe dialogue wasn't needed at that time, just a shared experience.

Virtually no interaction with children any more since the birth of mobile phones. They've been nothing but a curse in so many ways causing many problems. A truly sad society.

I agree with you Lovelycuppa, we can sometimes over talk a situation so a child doesn’t get the freedom to think. I reflected as I read bedtime stories to my grandchildren that none were ever read to me, in the 1950’s maybe it wasn’t the trend, but I felt loved and as I slept in a top bunk of a bunk bed we had great fun playing games at bedtime

I am astounded to read such judgemental attitudes from so many Grans who often go on to boast about their "superior" acts of parenting.
It was a huge relief to read Shelmiss, RomyP and janeainsworth. What right have we to jump conclusions about other people's lives from just seeing one small part on one particular day?
It is hardly surprising that we older people are sometimes regarded as stuck in the mud and out of touch. A lot of children, my sight-impaired grandson for example, use their iPad to read books. If children grow up forbidden to use the computer or iPad or phone (which is a kind of small iPad) they will be badly lacking in the skills and knowledge of the technology that is fundamental to how we live.
Using technology does not prevent playing interactive games like those so promoted board games. My two eldest Grandsons are nearly the same age. One is an only child. They adore each other and play such games constantly together. Last time I spoke to my eldest daughter she said her son was playing such a game with his cousin on the iPad. I was delighted. They were both at their own homes about 177 miles apart.

The idea that board games are superior because they encourage interaction is another Luddite view. Many games on computers need interaction. You can play chess on the computer. At the family get-together over New Year, the children were playing a game together on the computer that involved enormous interaction, fun, emotion, craziness and real friendship.

I too came across those overwhelming pushy mothers who kept up a non-stop mind improvement course for their children. I taught in the early part of my career. These children learn to tune out the constant buzz of an adult's voice which is trying to take over their mind and not let them think for themselves. I have also read with amusement many Tweets from people who have suffered train journeys in a carriage with a pushy parent who is cheerfully "improving" his/her child's experience with a continuous chatter about the scenery and important facts pertaining thereupon. I have experienced this with my eldest daughter and teenage son recently on a train journey. Her reaction was, "That poor kid!" and teenage grandson said, "Parents like that should be shot."

To all who have said how can you judge those people who read in the Library while their grandchild does the same, or who gave the small child a computer game on the phone at a restaurant dinner table, I salute you and thank you on behalf of all exhausted parents trying to do their best. In particular I was so pleased to hear how the phone game helped the Autistic child. That is such a great leap of progress for Autistic children! Thank you for telling us.

As for blaming forward facing push chairs! What a mad thing to say! The whole point of the pushchair facing the direction of travel is that the child can see the view! What better way to learn about their environment? I certainly managed to talk to all mine while they were facing forward.

Namsnanny- I'm so sorry that you are still in pain. These situations are such a heart-wrenching torment. I fully understand how you must feel seeing what might be a grandparent with a grandchild and the two of them not communicating. I hope and pray that your situation changes for the better. Sending lots of love, Elle x ?

I don’t buy the excuse that parents/GP’s are having ‘downtime’ or a difficult day. When you’re in a cafe or on a bus and three quarters of the children are being ignored by parents, I find it hard to believe that all those parents are too stressed to talk to their little ones. Parents have always been under stress, it comes with the territory, but taking it out on children is wrong.

I’m not sure forward facing buggies has much to do with it. There are photos of me in a FF pushchair in the 1950’s and it hasn’t stopped me from talking!

I first realised just how addictive screens could be when I allowed my granddaughter to press the screen to bring up a photo of whatever she requested (and I had typed) e.g. cow, elephant etc. My intention was to help her to widen her vocabulary.
After about half an hour the rain had stopped and I shut down the tablet so that we could go out. Absolute mayhem ensued. She fought me for the tablet and screamed blue murder when I wouldn’t start it up again. To be honest it frightened the living daylights out of me.
She was just 1 year old and I had never seen her demonstrate that type of behaviour before.
I don’t just think it sad to see children glued to screens OP. After that experience I feel it is downright dangerous!