Are we being unreasonable?

I find it twice as hard looking after my dgc all day in their house as I do in my own,
Just feeding them is a huge challenge when you have to search every cupboard to find something suitable for them, let alone prepare it when cooker, microwave and even the tap require an instruction manual to be able to work them
The only thing that is easier at theirs is having so many toys available.

Luckily, both my sons and dils trust me enough with their children for there to be give and take both ways, and they took it for granted that I would usually look after them at mine.
When the children were young, they knew I would do my best to follow their rules on things like TV and sweet treats, but they also said from the start that the occasional breaking of these rules was OK, and that they themselves broke them sometimes. In fact, they actually said something along the lines that they understood and appreciated (from their own childhood) that one of roles of grandparents was to "spoil" the grandchildren, so a small amount of that was only natural even when providing regular childcare.

Without this give and take, I would not have agreed/continued to look after their children. It certainly wasn't something that I had ever planned to do. They needed my help, and contrary to what some on here seem to think, looking after one's young grandchildren is not always a pleasure. In fact it's bl***y hard work, especially for just one grandparent, and if it comes with a lot of strings attached, it could easily be a nightmare.

No way would I let myself be treated as the OP's son and dil seem to be treating her. I'd honestly rather have no contact all than be treated like that!
If they don't think that she is up to the job, they should be honest and just explain why. That would not be unreasonable.

Taking a kid to places 1 day a week may or not be "helping with the child's development" - that is a very dangerous and loaded statement

If the child is going to a playdate - sure
If it is grandma or grandpa running their errands - not at all

Some parents may get weirded out when grandparents buy their own baby equipment, especially if the parents already have issues with a request, as grandparents may or not have expectations of the gc using it.
A car seat is one of those items

Oldnproud- this, just this. Any relationship has to involve give and take and trust.

Hithere

Taking a kid to places 1 day a week may or not be "helping with the child's development" - that is a very dangerous and loaded statement

If the child is going to a playdate - sure
If it is grandma or grandpa running their errands - not at all

Some parents may get weirded out when grandparents buy their own baby equipment, especially if the parents already have issues with a request, as grandparents may or not have expectations of the gc using it.
A car seat is one of those items

Surely a child being present when a few everyday things (errands) are bring done is both natural and educational. Errands involve interactions and transactions. A healthy upbringing is like a healthy diet in that it should offer a wide variety.

I actually deliberately made a point of doing some 'housework' while looking after the younger grandchildren, so that they get used to the fact that an adult cannot be expected to play with them every single minute of every day. In reality, this might just mean that I wash the dishes after lunch (a job that my OH does normally), then sit down with a cup of tea for ten minutes. It's as good for them as it is for me!

Taking a kid to places 1 day a week may or not be "helping with the child's development" - that is a very dangerous and loaded statement\

*If the child is going to a playdate - sure
If it is grandma or grandpa running their errands - not at all*

Hmmmm.... I think "running errands" CAN be a big part of a child's development...and an advantage for grandparents is that they may well have more time than their parents.

- Going shopping, talking about the purchases, finding things on the shelves, picking out the different fruit and vegetables, discussing the larger and smaller items, looking at the numbers for the prices, putting them in the trolley, helping at the checkout, as they get older maybe touching the card on the machine, ......lots of learning in there and lots of conversation.

Maybe it is walking somewhere together - discussing the colours of cars, flowers, trees, etc, maybe finding numbers on the cars, or door numbers. Seeing an aeroplane , wondering where it is going, talking about that place. Maybe seeing a bird, or a worm or whatever! Maybe seeing rubbish on the pavement, talking bout that and what should be done with litter. Crossing the road, pressing the light and waiting.

Then there is the potential for "helping" to make a meal - washing vegetables, laying a table, counting how many people and places, getting out cutlery, when older chopping vegs, or serving up, or carrying plates ...stirring and watching how things mix together, using a whisk, learning to crack an egg...and so on!!

Or helping with cleaning - dusting, using the dustpan, tidying books/papers etc ....

All of these "Errands" and jobs include lots of potential learning development with an adult who uses the time and has the time... whether that is a parent, a grandparent or some other trusted adult!

I would buy another car seat new from a reputable dealer with current safety standards. The standards do change Halfords sell reasonably priced seats and fit them. I have always had my own car seats. I have also been asked to pick up sick GC from nurseries so these have been so useful for the AC to know that I can be there for emergencies not just the days the days I looked after GC

If the parents have stated they do not want the child taken out in the car then this is not a good idea. I think why they have made that decision needs explaining but going against that wish and buying a car seat is not a solution.

My PIL would be quite capable of looking after my son at home, mine or theirs (though there is a lot more to break at theirs). But I would not trust their driving, and they are not active and quick enough on their feet to manage a young child outside. They can't catch him. They can't stop him running off. It doesn't matter how experienced you are, or how many children you have raised. If you are getting older and slower, you may no longer be able to care for small children safely. That is sad, but it is reality. It's the job of the parents to put the child's safety first.

It can be quite difficult to tell your parent that they are no longer physically capable of taking a child out safely, but that might well be the issue.

It might be difficult but if a parent wants to use a grandparent or anyone else for childcare then they have to find a way to overcome that difficulty and explain their viewpoint, otherwise it leads exactly to the type of situation that the OP finds herself in, and it is NOT shoing respect for their parent/PIL....!!

There is NO problem making a decision for one's child as a parent, absolutely the parents right and responsibility. There is a problem with pronouncing, not explaining and not acknowledging how one's viewpoint/expectation might impact on others, even if one still sticks to the viewpoint.

Communication is needed all round as it frequently is in these type of scenarios

I just wondered right at the beginning if it had to do with the OPs driving.

She did say she hadn’t had a car for 18 months. Most people would need at least a refresher course after a gap that long.

There wasn’t any trouble really until she said she wanted to take him in the car.

We all know how hard it is to get people to acknowledge that they’re not safe on the road

I agree it may be hard to get them to acknowledge. But it still has to be said IF that is the reason.

Is your driving OK. Have you got out of practice the last 18 months DS has had car. Maybe have a refresher with a professional prior to your meeting with GS. Are the safety concerns just re motoring?

Lathyrus
There wasn’t any trouble really until she said she wanted to take him in the car.

I don't really agree - prior to the car issues, the OP, in her own words, "always had to ask permission even to go for a walk."
That is an unusual and extremely restrictive thing to demand of someone who is looking after a child in their own home from 7am to 5.30pm, whether a grandparent or a paid childminder.

Give that the OP still works four days a week, I doubt if we are talking about a very old grandparent here, either, and I find the statement that she / most people would need at least a refresher course after not driving for 18 months slightly silly.

The trouble is, none of us have no way of knowing if the parents have genuine and justifiable reasons for their decisions.

'The discussion' needs to take place. It might solve nothing, but nor will avoiding it.

Your son & his partner should be prepared to explain the reasons they are insisting on these rules. It would then be up to you to decide whether or not you are happy to comply. If they won’t do this I’d step back and leave them to it. Finding decent childcare won’t be easy for them but that’s their choice.

The most important thing is to not get stressed by it all, don’t feel pressured into agreeing to something that you are not happy with just to keep the peace. If they want you to help out maybe they should be prepared to be a little more flexible.

Once you’ve had a chat you may just decide to compromise and go by their rules so you can build a relationship with your GC. Little ones grow up so quickly so it would be nice to enjoy your time with your GC while you can.

Ok, Oldnproud, I agree not going for a walk was a bit much.

I’ll have to strongly disagree with you on the driving though. 18 months is a long time to have a break from driving. It makes people hesitant and over cautious which actually causes a lot of accidents. There are so many people on the road could benefit from a refresher course!

But that’s another topic for another thread?

SachaMac

Your son & his partner should be prepared to explain the reasons they are insisting on these rules. It would then be up to you to decide whether or not you are happy to comply. If they won’t do this I’d step back and leave them to it. Finding decent childcare won’t be easy for them but that’s their choice.

The most important thing is to not get stressed by it all, don’t feel pressured into agreeing to something that you are not happy with just to keep the peace. If they want you to help out maybe they should be prepared to be a little more flexible.

Once you’ve had a chat you may just decide to compromise and go by their rules so you can build a relationship with your GC. Little ones grow up so quickly so it would be nice to enjoy your time with your GC while you can.

Good advice Sachamac

So having a car seat and take kids in the car for errands while grandparents are babysitting is now apparently needed for the child's development and learning experience and the implication the child is worse off if not allowed.....

Uff, where to start ...

Please do not tell this to the parents, I assure you it is not going to sit well
It will backfire big time

Oldnproud

Lathyrus
There wasn’t any trouble really until she said she wanted to take him in the car.

I don't really agree - prior to the car issues, the OP, in her own words, "always had to ask permission even to go for a walk."
That is an unusual and extremely restrictive thing to demand of someone who is looking after a child in their own home from 7am to 5.30pm, whether a grandparent or a paid childminder.

Give that the OP still works four days a week, I doubt if we are talking about a very old grandparent here, either, and I find the statement that she / most people would need at least a refresher course after not driving for 18 months slightly silly.

The trouble is, none of us have no way of knowing if the parents have genuine and justifiable reasons for their decisions.

'The discussion' needs to take place. It might solve nothing, but nor will avoiding it.

The thing is whether op or any of us agree or not the parents have a “justified “ reason for saying they don’t want their child out and about with anyone - they are the parents. Full stop. They don’t need to justify every decision they make as parents to anyone else’s liking or explain it, or get approval. They have said they do not want op driving with their child in the car. Op can choose to honor that request , or say that given that situation she isn’t able to keep her grandson on Friday’s - that is the part in her control. Perhaps they reconsider , maybe they don’t - but the choice is up to them. It is after all, their young son.

Hithere

So having a car seat and take kids in the car for errands while grandparents are babysitting is now apparently needed for the child's development and learning experience and the implication the child is worse off if not allowed.....

Uff, where to start ...

Please do not tell this to the parents, I assure you it is not going to sit well
It will backfire big time

I certainly didn't want my small children out on errands, in shops. I don't imagine with covid my GGC parents have their children out any more than necessary either. School, walks, playing in the house and garden is surely enough?

So having a car seat and take kids in the car for errands while grandparents are babysitting is now apparently needed for the child's development and learning experience and the implication the child is worse off if not allowed.....

Has anyone said that?

As regards toddlers running off, there are these things called reins - often attached to a toddler-sized backpack nowadays - for this very purpose.

Fleurpepper

All relationships require give and take, and mutual respect, and honesty. Grandparents who are willing and able to help should be made to feel valued and respected. And vice versa. I hear so mayn stories from friends that indicate they are totally being taken for granted and made to follow lists of 'rules' to the letter and more or less blackmailed on the matter. Too far!

It’s not blackmail though to simply say “if you want to spend the day with our child, or if you’re willing to spend the day with our child, these are our rules”. When the op wouldn’t agree to their rules they seem to have found a new arrangement ( it says dil has stayed home that day these past three weeks). It’s not blackmail to have certain boundaries in regard to their child, who watches him, and what he’s able to do with said person. It being a relative makes those boundaries often harder to instill but they’re just as reasonable as saying to a non related care provider “these are the rules we wish to enforce in regard to our child” and then the care giver can simply choose to accept as is , or say that doesn’t work for them and the parents make a different arrangement. It doesn’t become blackmail just because they’re related - grandma is not OWED the day with her young grandson, and before anyone says “but she’s doing them a favor” - it would seem that the “favor”
Comes with strings of doing it grandmas way and they are declining - which they’re entitled to do.

It being a relative makes those boundaries often harder to instill but they’re just as reasonable as saying to a non related care provider “these are the rules we wish to enforce in regard to our child” and then the care giver can simply choose to accept as is , or say that doesn’t work for them and the parents make a different arrangement.

I don't know any professional childminder who would agree to those "rules" and regularly keep a child of 30 months at home for up to ten and a half hours on their own.

Even 25-35 years ago when my own kids were little we often hired a sitter for the day most certainly looked after my children in my home and didn’t drive them around. My own adult daughter did a fair amount of part time nanny jobs in college, one to two days a week in the child’s home , not driving them around . Daycare facilities no , but plenty of child care workers do in home care and stay at home! And si ce the dil has opted to stay home instead on the day op had her gc it tells me they’re not nearly as worried about needing this care as she is about loosing the day with her grand

I cannot spend a whole day inside with my grandchildren whatever the weather, we always get out for part of the day.
My youngest, who is now the only one I have in term time, is completely full on, wanting you to play with her all day, so we have a few favourite places to go to, but I see nothing wrong at all in taking her into town or to the supermarket.
I too work four days a week, and sometimes other things need to be done.
I don’t think it’s beneficial for children to think every hour of the day should be tailored around their needs.

Agree with Sara1954 who suggests it's good for children to get out and about for part of the day. If they were being looked after at home full time by a parent, it's very likely there would be a need to go shopping or do other errands and the child/children would be just brought with them, whether in car or walking.

I agree that whoever is looking after the children should go along with parent's wishes, as far as possible- fortunately when I do a bit of occasional childcare for grandchildren, the parents are very happy for me to take them out.

I'm not sure that I've read that the toddler must be kept inside Sara1954 - I'm afraid I assumed there was a garden as the property is "isolated"?