Sleepless toddler - family at end of tether

Time!

Does this little insomniac have a nap during the day and, if so, is it possible to shorten it, reschedule it or make it every other day? Otherwise, I can't think of anything that isn't already being done short of walking him off his legs (and your daughter off hers too) to wear him out.

When they put him back down. Do they go to him immediately ?
A very wise older HV told me to try "controlled crying" with my son. When he cried out in the night , leave him for 2 mins. Put him down (as they are doing no interaction) if he continues to cry leave him 3 mins. Gradually increase the interval.
If I remember right it took 3 nights for my son to be able to "self settle"
This method does take nerves of steel, and may be best to prewarn the neighbours
We never looked back after this. I hope for their sake it's of some help.

Co-sleep?

I think we often don't realise that our child has moved on, especially with food. I would ensure that he is well fed before he goes to bed as a start so he is not waking up hungry.

I always did the 'controlled crying' thing even though I didn't know it was called that, but I started it earlier than that. Our GS used to get up several times a night until his parents steeled themselves to try it. They put him to bed and told him he had to stay there until morning. He cried for 5 minutes. DS went in, gave him a quick cuddle and told him he had to stay in bed then went downstairs to wait for 20 minutes before going up. GS didn't cry! DS went upstairs and found him fast asleep in the corner of his cot!

Periodically since they they have had to reinforce that he must stay in bed. Now he has a clock which lights up with the sun at the time he is allowed to get up. He also has 3 lightup toadstools in his cot with him as he doesn't like to sleep in the dark.

Is it possible they haven't talked to him about it? A child of that age understands a lot more than he is able to express and so will know what his parents mean when they say he has to go to bed. I don't agree with the no interaction. If a child is feeling insecure the last thing he needs is to feel that his parents don't care. I think a quick cuddle and explain that it is night and he has to sleep is much more reassuring.

At 18 months children are testing the boundaries a lot and need those boundaries reinforced time and time again in order to feel secure.

Good luck

Thanks for all the suggestions - I will pass them on.

The situation is a bit urgent as I am watching my DD go down the drain again - we spent 7 months caring for her son when she was ill during her pregnancy and she was in a very bad way. We all fear a return to that situation.

What we are all buttoning our lips about is that another DD's new baby has been sleeping through the night from about 5 weeks! I think that would be too much information!

I do hope it can be sorted soon. Going without sleep is bead enough when you are well but when poorly or stressed is even worse.

Arrghh I really feel for her, for them, for you too. Our first didn't sleep through the night for almost 2 years, and as OH was working 140+, including nights and week-ends and without family around, it was so hard.

Controlled crying is indeed the way to go- but it requires nerves of steel, and it could be beyond a young mum who is suffering from depression and exhaustion. Do read about it, there is plenty on the net - with clear guidelines on how to do it successfully.

We nearly didn't have our second daughter, as I jut couldn't bear to think of going through 2 years of not sleeping again. Number two however slep through the night after a few weeks and was so easy to care for- pheeeew.

Hope you all find a way to make it work.

Just Google controlled crying, there are so many helpful sites, including the supernanny one.

My DD has nursed DGS to sleep all the time but he wakes as soon as she puts him down. He never seems to have been a good sleeper and fights off drowsiness. His dad was said to have been a poor sleeper as well.

DD is going to have to sort this out before he goes to nursery in three months time. I have discretely suggested she needs to get a bit tougher with him he is 6months now.
I was very lucky with mine though and they usually just fell asleep after a feed in their cots with no trouble at all. I really dont know what to suggest to DD.

Nellie do you think that might be part of the problem, parents nursing them to sleep? Maybe they feell insecure when not in a parents' arms? I always put mine down in their cots when they were awake and didn't have any of the problems DiL has had. I note that #2 gets put down while awake!

Have you been watching the ITV Bedtime Live programmes, with Prof. Tanya Byron, all about getting babies and children to sleep? It is on at 8pm on Tuesdays. There have been some lasting successes. They have experts who tailor individual regimes using the various usual techniques except, I seem to remember, controlled crying. As it is a live programme you may not find it on ITV player.

Thanks for the programme recommendation - I'll see if I can find it.

The unfortunate thng is that they had just bitten the bullet and gone for the controlled crying (in spite of his bellowing and practically wrecking the cot!) but he then got a dreadful virus with high temp and vomiting for a week, which rather curtailed their efforts. I am trying to encourage them to try again.

They will have to have nerves of steel!

I only had daughters and never had this problem. I wonder if this is a common finding?

Episode 2 of Bedtime Live had a toddler with a very similar problem. He wouldn't settle without breastfeeding. I think you can still see that episode on 4od (It was on Channel 4)

Sorry Mishap, no wonder I couldn't find the programme on ITV player - it is on Channel 4, and they do have the previous episodes on demand. They have covered all the problems your daughter is facing, including the boob thing. I wish you all good luck, as you say nerves of steel are required but will hopefully be rewarded.

Moved Yes I do! One tries to tell them! Rod for backs etc!
I think DD might realise that now. Theres nothing like falling asleep on mums boob in her nice warm arms!

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There are two problems here aren't there Mishap.
1. he is addicted to boobs and using this as a way to control mum
2. he is being rewarded for waking and crying by eventually getting the boob and the cuddle that goes with it (if i understand correctly) If this is the case then it is indeed a battle of wills - if i cry long enough and loud enough i will get what i want.
babies and toddlers want to control the universe (not just their mums but that would do for a start)
Sometimes mums cant wean because they don't want to - it signals an end to the baby years. But if she really wants to maybe that is the first step. Suggest an impenetrable sports bra to be worn at all times.
Does he eat and drink other things and just use the breast as a dummy? A baby of 18 months in an affluent country does not need mum for nutrition - and there are ways of getting calcium in if they won't drink milk. (cheese, yoghurt, porridge, custard milk jelly etc)
That is an option bags but not for everyone and being woken multiple times a night by the demon boob boy pulling at your jammies may not be a recipe for a peaceful night.

One of my DGS would not sleep much at all during the night and they too tried everything then they noticed that when in their bed even on his own he was fine - they used a camp bed as it was not far off the floor and tried him in that - no problems at all. The cot we bought him was brand new when his brother was born and then had good use.

Jess Your assessment fits my DGS as well. He is only 6months but he knows exactly where the store cupboard is.
He is just not yet physically adept at digging through his mums clothing to get to it.

This little chap does not feed from the breast he just likes to stroke it (anyone's will do!) - my DD finishes up leaning over the cot for him to fondle her boobs.

I have sent her the link to the programme (for which lots of thanks) and I hope that she will take some of the advice there.

Basically there is an underlying emotional issue - conceiving him (and his sibling) was hard, the pregnancy was hard, the birth was hard. There will be no more children as it is too risky (and certainly not if the sleep problems mean she and her OH never finish up in bed together!). So he is the last child, much-wanted and achieved at enormous cost in so many ways. Leting go and being firm is hard, which is why I never press her on it and leave them to find their own way.

I hope that the link to the programme and the two gifts I have sent will give some advice and comfort and the knowledge that she is not alone.

Oh bless her. I have never heard of that particular one with breasts. Substitute noonoo /blanky
Poor love it must be very hard for her.

I didn't co-sleep, except for a little bit with DD3. It was really just a case of hauling her out of her carry cot into the bed for night feeds and falling asleep. Once I tried to turn over while she was still attached. Hoiked my nipple out and did turn and we all went back to sleep. But from twenty weeks to the day she slept twelve hours a night, unbroken, until she was about six years old.

But DD1 co-slept with GS1 until he was about two and a half or three. Nights were never noisy and she didn't seem to lack sleep. I think GS just didn't like being on his own, which is natural when you think about it, and he wasn't a deep sleeper. He's fine in his own bed now at three and a half and sleeps well.

It's just another option for a mum who needs her sleep, I feel. If he felt he wasn't going to be parted from her all the time, he'd probably grow out of needing her there, as GS did. She could also do this until she feels strong enough to tackle a tougher approach.

Just a thought. Good luck to her

Thanks for all the ideas - I am sure she will get there in the end. This is just a particularly difficult patch for her.