Mindfulness for Depression/Anxiety?

Jingle - your post made me smile. Thank you And you're probably right about DD1. I will try to step back a little more!
xxxx

Jingl I know your words were for Rowantree but so much you have said helped me. I am tempted to print it off just so that I can read it when necessary. Thank you

I am sitting with a copy of "Mindfulness - a practical guide to finding peace in a frantic world" here by my side. I've had it months - and read it all. But it comes with CD's of guided meditations and I've not yet started on those. I just keep putting it off for no very good reason. Yet I know that the last time I did a guided meditation for just 20 minuted the impact lasted days. My best description of the effect was that it was as though someone had cleaned all the windows in my mind and I could see clearly again. So I think your chat has inspired me to get my finger out and follow the guided plan. Thank you!
(I have a deep seated source of anxiety which is very real and beyond my control - but the thoughts destroy my peace of mind. They are, however "just thoughts" and that's a truth that mindfulness keeps bringing you back to.)

Pollaidh - I can identify with the anxious thoughts destroying your peace of mind. I am sorry you are struggling too, though your anxiety is probably from a different source. The pain is the same, though.
I didn't find the same clarity when I meditated and still don't, yet, but it helps at the time, and I am persevering because it's a good habit to have - and I hope will in time counteract the judgemental thoughts and feelings which are so strong and at times overwhelming. I hope that's true for you also.

I recommend 'Take 10' if you have a smartphone or computer - it's free, but you can then subscribe for further guided daily meditations. I am finding them a comfort, but as yet it's not made much impact on my depression or anxiety.

Thanks Rowantree. I will look at Take 10. Even a temporary respite from the thoughts that ravage our peace has to be a good thing and contribute to healing in time.
The other thing I find really therapeutic is exercise. Having two dogs helps - you have to walk them whatever the weather. I also jog rather hopelessly around the local lanes about twice weekly. If you are physically able to undertake some sort of exercise that gets you out of breath (even slightly) and doesn't hurt (too much!) it might be worth a try. I find it lifts my spirits.
Off to look up Take 10! x

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-puddicombe/meditation-tips_b_3050935.html

So I found Andy Puddicombe (what a lovely name) on Huffington post and immediately warmed to this article and the next one about uncertainty.

Does anyone else find that they are far more motivated to do something when they read of someone else's experience? Just the first little tip about when to meditate - well i could have told myself that, but maybe I don't value my own opinion too much, so when someone else suggests it i think "oh yes, what a good idea!!".

So 6.30 am it is tomorrow. Honest. Promise. I have the place and the blanket and the time.......

Well done, Pollaidh - I don't think I could manage 6 30 am these days. Time was when I'd leap out of bed looking forward to the day. Now I wake with trepidation, feeling either very anxious or very low, and have to force myself up by 8 30. Shameful. As to jogging - me and exercise have never been friends but I am trying to walk a bit more. When I can motivate myself I enjoy gardening, but it's too squelchy to do that at the moment unfortunately.
I meditate late afternoon - I do the Take 20 and then a bodyscan meditation from one of my CDs. I use my daughter's old bedroom, light a few candles, some incense and generally make the atmosphere conducive to being calm. I guess I ought to do it earlier in the morning really.
We're not doggy people but we do have an elderly cat. Doesn't quite count in the exercise stakes to stroke her though!

As to motivation and other people's experiences....yes, I often find that. Sometimes it's reading something obvious which I've overlooked previously and someone else pointing it out makes me think again.

Good luck with the early rising!

The room sounds lovely. And I don't think it matters when you meditate as long as you do some each day.
I know what you mean about motivation - sometimes it's hard to feel doing anything is worthwhile - but it usually is. And that feeling of waking up with lead in your stomach - sometimes a deep dread is what I get. But getting up generally disperses it a little. And routine definitely helps.
I am going to place some candles in my room for tomorrow. Thanks for the tip.
We have some nice late afternoon sun here. I hope you do too.

That deep dread, yes - the lead, often stomach churning, sometimes I'm not sure why, but generally I don't want to be awake feeling like that and it takes a while to disperse. Today I had some textile-arty friends over for the day which was a good distraction, but I had to keep up the mask of Feeling OK, which gets exhausting at times.
This is the first week I won't be going to my usual Mentalisation-Based therapy. I'm expecting them to phone and hassle me about it, even though I'd made it clear I wasn't going back and that last Thursday's review was my last session. They weren't impressed.
I plan to look into joining other U3a groups locally when I feel more up to it. There's a gardening one, and plenty of other interest groups. I go to a meditation group which is lovely, and a weekly Pilates class.
I'd like to get out into the garden, but planting anything in the muddy mush would be counterproductive and wouldn't be good for the soil structure. How those poor people along the Thames and in Somerset and the West Country are managing is beyond me. It looks totally horrific.

Having a lovely setting does makes a difference, I use an electric dish for my aromatherapy oils (I think they are sometimes called aroma stones) it means I don't have to worry if I need to leave the room. Some people find absolute silence difficult, gentle music in the background like a canon which doesn't have peaks and troughs, or natural sounds can be useful.

Just in case you are the sort of person who is encouraged to keep going by research, I took this from an article about Matthieu Riccard by Anthony Barnes called The Happiest Man in the World in the Independent Sunday 21 January 2007. There has been a lot more written since then.

MRI scans showed that he and other long-term meditators - who had completed more than 10,000 hours each - experienced a huge level of "positive emotions" in the left pre-frontal cortex of the brain, which is associated with happiness. The right-hand side, which handles negative thoughts, is suppressed.

Further studies have shown that even novices who have done only a little meditation have increased levels of happiness. But Mr Ricard's abilities were head and shoulders above the others involved in the trials.

"The mind is malleable," Mr Ricard told The Independent on Sunday yesterday. "Our life can be greatly transformed by even a minimal change in how we manage our thoughts and perceive and interpret the world. Happiness is a skill. It requires effort and time."'

Thanks, Alternativegran, There's another weird thing I've noticed about meditation: it seems to resolve my tinnitus. For years now I've had the familiar hiss in my ears - too many rock concerts! But I noticed it was much louder when I am tired or stressed (which can be such a lot of the time!). anyway, today, when I did my first Take 10 meditation, I paid attention to sound as guided and it wasn't until the end of the session that I registered the fact that the hissing had all but disappeared! And it's not back 5 hours later! Anyone else found that??
Rowantree - gardening is a no-no up here in the Scottish Borders as well. We have a clay soil and walking on it when wet turns it into bricks!
My local U3a group is a lively one - I joined 3 groups at first, but will possibly take up more next autumn. It's a brilliant institution, isn't it?
Finally, my own take on the "mask of feeling OK" is that it may be exhausting, but it is very good for you. One of the things that terrifies me about complete retirement is that I will end up with too much time to brood. Having to act "fine" distracts me from that.

Pollaidh - I'm just back from a Yin Yang yoga class I started 5 weeks ago. This morning, one of the meditations involved holding the tip of the middle finger towards the palm of the hand, using the thumb to maintain a gentle pressure. The yoga teacher told us this cures her tinnitus - how about that for serendipity

Thanks Iam64! I'll give it a try! I suspect that mild tinnitus responds to changes in blood pressure (when I'm really anxious, I can hear my blood pounding in my ears, even when I'm perfectly still - anyone else get that?). My BP is generally quite fine by the way!

I can 'hear' my blood pounding away when I am sitting still or lying down too. Not sure whether that's significant medically-speaking or it's that some of us are more aware of such things because we get anxious. Well, that's the case with me anyway!

I'm persevering with 'Take 20' and some body scan meditations nearly every day. But nothing seems to lessen the pain of the awful thoughts I get, or the shame and guilt. When I'm sleeping is the only time I get peace from them.

Sometimes I feel there's only one thing that would help, but I couldn't put my loved ones through it - it would be the ultimate in selfishness.

Rowan please, if thoughts like that are truly in your mind, ring Samaritans. Please? X

Rowan - you are not on your own in feeling this way, truly. Life can be very hard and each bad thing that happens to us can exacerbate the way we feel. I don't want to make this all about me but it may help you feel you are not alone in this. I have documented on here about my terrible violent, neglectful childhood, losing my teeth as a child through neglect and consequently feeling different to all the other kids/teenagers I knew, years later loss of (some quite young) family members, and the last few years all my hair falling out. I have never felt that I 'fitted in'. Some days it is all too much but, like you, I have a family and couldn't put them through the alternative to carrying on. My brother (aged 24) did the unthinkable and the effect on the whole family was devastating. You are obviously a very good decent person, thinking of your family above yourself. Don't be so hard on yourself, you are doing really well.

Life can be very, very hard for some of us. Don't give up, Rowantree, I agree with all that Katy has said and you are doing well, if just by opening up on here.

I can't talk to Samaritans, Dragonfly. They would judge me, even if they don't say anything judgemental. I would love to be a decent person, but I fear I fall far short of that, though I appreciate your kindness, both Dragonfly and KatyK.
And I do have my DH, though we keep going over the same old ground. He needs support too and does his best. KatyK, you have had a terrible time as a child, and it's no wonder you feel as you do - and I can't claim my childhood was a neglectful one - far from it, I knew they loved me. However, they came from torn-apart families themselves: my father was a refugee from Nazi Germany, my mother an orphan from Canada sent overseas to live with a grandmother who didn't show her any real love. My parents were strict and had set ideas on how I should live my life. I feel terrible saying this and feel I am betraying them - I know they gave me such a lot, but I never felt good enough, and never fitted in at school or anywhere else. I can't go into details but my adolescence was a huge struggle and I was also bullied and rejected a great deal and thought it was my fault. To this day, I compare myself unfavourably to other people and I'm sure it's the cause of the envy I feel, even for lovely people I care about (which tears me apart inside with distress). When we had our children, we decided they would never suffer in the same way as I had - we wanted them to ALWAYS know they were loved unconditionally and to live thoughtfully but to follow what inspired them..... but DD2 had serious health issues, born with a rare syndrome, so her childhood and adolescence was far from easy. However, decades later, both daughters though are amazingly wonderful young women, caring, thoughtful, considerate and responsible, who live independent lives, but I worry so much about them for various reasons. It often seems that the lives of others is easier, their kids do 'normal' things, get married and have steady jobs - DD1 is still single (her relationship broke up last year), and though she works very hard at what she does, and does it well, it's not a regular income (and she is in her early 30s). I know that life is in fact far from easy for many people, and these days to have a job at all is something! I would just like to be able to handle my anxiety and depression better, and not inflict it on my family, because it's not their fault and it shouldn't be their problem, it's mine.
KatyK, I am so sorry to read that your brother did 'the unthinkable'. I can imagine some of the pain and agony that left in its wake. My DD2 made several attempts on her life when in the grip of severe mental health problems, and we nearly lost her twice - that we didn't was a result of some intuition of mine that something was very wrong and I was able to intervene just in time (though the second time it was almost too late). That was hard enough - your pain, and your family's pain, must have been indescribable. I don't believe you can 'get over' something like that - you learn to live with the pain. Big hugs to you.
Thank you once again for listening to yet another rant from me. I feel I've done a lot of that on Gransnet, but if it helps others to do the same, and to feel supported and cared about, then maybe it's not totally wasted. xxxxxxx

I've phoned the Samaritans twice in my life and they didn't judge at all. Once I phoned them to say I was very lonely and just 'wanted to hear someones voice'. They were very kind and understanding.

Rowan - sending you a virtual hug. Samaritans really don't judge, I promise. And there's nothing they haven't heard before. They listen and they do care. Many people become Sams listening volunteers because they have had struggles of their own.

A belated thank you for your virtual hug.
I once- many years ago - started the process of volunteering for the Samaritans, and then realised that with so many issues of my own, I'd be booger all use to someone else, so decided to withdraw before I was too committed. I've felt guilty about it since, but have to be realistic about how helpful I could be.

I can talk to my DH - we have no secrets, and he's the only one who knows what I'm really like inside (and it's not very nice, often). He still loves me despite that. For the rest of the world, it's a case of wearing a mask so what's on show is acceptable and palatable. I don't want my issues to become problems for others - they are my responsibility to deal with. Somehow.

But when I feel really rubbish, a kind word or hug really helps - whether it's virtual or not. So thank you for your kindness - and others on here who've been lovely.

This thread has been so interesting to me, as I have have just tried anti depressants [citalopram] but have taken myself off. I spoke to the Pharmacist who gave me advice. I began to feel confused and living on my own was not good, I felt Dementia was on the way. Stomach churning and unable to get out of bed as well as not being able to leave the house were symptoms I had too, and as I go to yoga think it will help. All down to family problems, which, at 73 I don't need. I just need a quiet, peaceful life to end my days !
I will try the suggestions on here. Mindfulness sound worth looking into
Thankyou for making me feel I am not the only one
smile

Songbird,I'm sorry citalopram hasn't helped you. Anxiety is horrible. I recommend a wonderful book on Mindfulness by Mark Williams and Danny Penman - called Finding Peace in a Frantic World. It's down to earth, and very comforting and reassuring. It has a cd at the back with short, guided mindfulness meditations on it and I find it invaluable. It's not a quick fix, it's something you get into the habit of doing every day - just do it, and see what happens. You have nothing to lose, it's not a drug and it could help in the long term. It's about practising living in the present moment - somethng that's hard to do when overwhelmed with anxiety (often about the future) or depression (which often contains elements of ruminating about past mistakes, problems or traumas).
You definitely aren't the only one. I am meditating every day now - I use guided meditations from 'Headspace', and sometimes add one of the Mark Williams/Danny Penman ones too. Hope you can find some peace of mind.

Is a quiet peaceful life to end one's days really something to be hankered after? Doesn't that sound rather end-hastening? It might be ok for some of the time, songbirdbut haven't you got someone who could help you chuck in a bit of enjoyment now and again?

Rowantree why do you have to care about being a bit"decent person". Just look after yourself and sod the rest of 'em.