Grandaughters bedtime

I think deciding on a bed-time routine and sticking to it is always helpful. My children all went to bed at a set time and were then allowed to read for a while. The one who was anxious used to listen to audiobooks instead and I would pop in and switch the machine off when he was asleep. My children often used to take themselves off to bed when they were tired and were all early risers.

My DD is 10- for the past year we have had the same problems, she has recently been put on melatonin and our lives have changed so much, we finally feel like we have our lives and our daughter back. She is currently on the pathway for an ASD diagnosis (high functioning aspergers). Have a look at some typical symptoms in girls online and see if you feel she matches them. Our last year has truly been awful for us all as a family. Nothing worked on our daughter- no amount of threats or punishments, reward charts, ignoring her, etc nothing. I got so wound up as people would tell me we needed to be ‘strict’ but I am certainly not a soft parent, we had always had a great routine and nothing worked at all. She couldn’t explain her behaviour and still can’t. Try magnesium baths, lavender massages, lavender scents in her room, banana before bed etc. We tried everything but nothing worked for us unfortunately until she began on medication. It was so frustrating that telling people how she was at night sounded fake- nobody could truly see it until they were there. She would actually stay awake the whole night. In the day she is a lovely girl and hates to go against rules. If you or your daughter need to talk I’m happy to DM, I know how hard it is dealing with a non sleeper.

Sorry just wanted to add- we hadn’t noticed the signs of asd until it was mentioned to us and we read up on it- girls are so good at hiding it, and there were so many things we just thought of as ‘her’ or her quirks, that actually fitted the boxes.

I suffered this with one of my girls and now she has it with one of hers. It is not unusual or needing medication.

Children like attention and even when we are telling them off, they prefer that to no attention.........ignoring this is the best way forward.

Make sure they have books and a night light etc and leave them to it.

The more you engage the more they do it. We have had some success with late night strolls , when dad takes the dog around the block in the evening, GD goes along, she enjoys this one to one time and get some energy release.

With a full day at school and after school activities she may be overstimulated and not able to wind down. Routine is a good idea, so warm bath, milk drink etc and then into bed at chosen time and if she doesn't want to sleep look at books, nothing electronic, or listen to stories on CD which often helps them to nod off. Has she had any night terrors, typical age for it as the imagination is really kicking in.

The thing that bothers me about this is the fact that she displays aggressive behaviour, both physical and verbal. To me this isn't 'overtired-ness' but some emotional problem. Could it be a case of her being bullied at school? Or as someone else has mooted, is there a new boyfriend on the scene? I'm not suggesting anything sinister about the latter, but children can get very stressed/angry (not unreasonably) about a new person in the family unit.

Has your dgs done any physical activity to make her feel tired. I care for dgs who does not seem to sleep a lot. We went to sleep expert and told must do lots of physical activity. I now take him swimming 4 times each week, tramolining and he does a park run of 2k on a Sunday morning, I take him to play cricket and rugby and on days with no activity send him into garden to bounce on trampoline. He now sleeps much better. Also be very strict, bedtime is bedtime, whether he sleeps or not he must be in room at 8.30pm on School night and 9 weekend and then light goes off 30 mins later during which time he can read.

Error not dgs dgs.

I agree that physical exertion is a good idea. Also she is at an age where to feel secure she is testing the boundaries so they have to be strong and firm. Hard. So act as if you have no doubts at all about her bedtime and there are no alternatives and you are not stressed about it. Nothing to be scared about. (Award yourself and daughter an Oscar) she is scared of her strength and wants you to be stronger. So be brave and good luck it’s tough but worth it.

Like the attention seeking suggestions and overtired.
Where is she getting the graphic language from? Is she listening to adults shouting at each other or unsuitable television, school?
My eldest was frightened of being the last one in the house awake and shouted out often to check we were not asleep. He got in such a state sometimes he made himself sick. It will probably pass. He is 34 now with three kids of his own. Don't rush to medicate kids have all sorts of funny problems and phases.

Haven't time to read all posts but one of my granddaughters has recently been diagnosed with - as having? - ADHD. It does seem to make things easier, knowing she is not responsible or neither are her parents for her behaviour.

Nannakathy. You say it is only recent this behaviour has started.?Have you thought of talking to GD's school teacher.? If your granddaughter has recently started to have this issue it could be connected with what is going on in her life when she is away from her mother and yourself. Kids get bullied, intimidated by other kids but afraid to tell their mums. In the mean time don't force her to bed.Sit with her read to her or let her read herself The more you react the more GD will react.I am sure it is a phase but only you can find out why she is like this so
school first.

I'm with other grans suggesting a clear bed time, a wind down routine with quiet activities for at least half an hour before bed (no devices or TV), maybe a milk drink, a night light in her bedroom and permission to read in bed but lights must be out by a specified time.
Screaming, kicking and name calling is attention seeking behaviour and it needs to very clear to her that this is not OK behaviour and loss of privileges will result. If she gets up she needs to be quietly and promptly returned to her bedroom- no extra time sitting watching telly on the couch with Mum or other special attention. Just be very calm and matter of fact about enforcing this.
There may well be abandonment anxieties after the separation of her parents and she may need lots of cuddles and conversations about those fears. Rewarding unwanted behaviour will ensure that it continues. Although we all do have different sleep needs I find it unlikely that a busy active 6 year old is not tired and ready for bed by 8 ish.

7.30-8.30 seems late to me. My 6yo gd is in bed ready for sleep by 7pm. After a full school day and after school clubs it may be that your gd is over tired and unable to control her emotions. She can't say how she feels so 'kicks off' instead.

Luckygirl I've just read out your reply to DH and we both had a wry smile as 30 odd years ago we had exactly the same problem and employed exactly the same solution, with the same result! Many years later I asked DD if she could remember what the problem had been and, without a moment's hesitation she replied 'witches' - of which she had not mentioned one word at the time! As another poster commented, imagination is really kicking in at that age.

I agree with others that more investigation is needed - talking to a teacher, and perhaps more. Does she ever stay over with anybody? Watch how she plays with her dolls (if she does) or encourage story telling - you start a story, then pass it over, then she passes it back to you etc and see if there is a recurrent theme. Car journeys and walks could be a good time to do this. No mention is made as to if she has a tablet/ phone/tv to play on and/ or in her room. There are a lot if unsuitable tv programmes before the watershed - all the soaps including Hollyoaks, have violence and scary family situations.
One of my sons always maintained that he did not need a lot of sleep and this was probably true as he gets under 6 hours now, but as a single parent, I told my children that I needed grown up time to myself. We never watched anything other than childrens tv or nature or other very innocent programmes when they were small, (I saw lots of Lassie films on Sunday afternoons and always cried!) we often listened to music (light classical and some popular songs but listen to the words first), we had a games night once a week with no tv. They had plenty of exercise and we always went for a walk and or to a playground at the weekends. Of course it is easier with two, as they played together. Every night when they were small at bedtime I was a ‘horse’ and took them upstairs on my back! A bedtime story and lights out. They knew that if they were scared I would go and sit with them but they were never allowed to stay up except on Saturdays as a treat which was also the only night we ate dinner (pizza) in front of the tv. Sitting at a table is good for conversations.
However, being an only child can be lonely and harder for the parent too - if at all possible I would recommend a dog, or if not practical, a cat, and allow it to sleep in her bedroom.

Oh dear! I see both sides of this story very clearly. My early life (up to 14) or so was plagued by my parents' firm conviction that all children needed 10 to 12 hours sleep every night. I didn't. But as my parents packed me of to bed at 7.30 and got cross if I got out of bed again, I soon learnt to stay in my bed, or move very quietly indeed if I got out of it. Until I was 7 I had a night light and an electric heater that gave off light so I could read, lying on my tummy in front of said heater, with one ear sharply cocked to hear the sitting-room door open. The signal for getting back into bed pronto.

As an adult I have had to see things from my parents' point of view, although I have never been convinced that children do need 10 or 12 hours sleep every night.

If a child is just being naughty then rules must be made and adhered to, if she is scared of the monsters under the bed, or is having nightmares then these have to be dealt with.

You ask why she is not tired? Either because she is not using her brain enough during the day, or because she is not getting enough exercise. What does she do at the after school club?
How intelligent is she? An intelligent six year old is probably bored at school as she understood the teacher the first time something was explained, and is sitting there waiting for the others to catch up.

If you and the child's mother are convinced this is not just naughtiness, some of it is, after all, why on earth are you putting up with name-calling? That sort of thing should, in my opinion, earn her an even earlier bedtime for a week or so. I think her mum should speak to the school and club and ask what is going on there, and how the child is behaving there. She may be being bullied, after all and is desperately trying to assert herself at home in the only way she knows.

We had the same problem many years ago when our oldest daughter was about six or seven. That's when we decided to 'strike a deal' with her.

Her usual bedtime was 8:30 PM. After endless nights of tears and tantrums, we were at wits end until we thought of changing 'bedtime' to 'curfew'. She would now be allowed to stay up past her bedtime for as many hours as she pleased. Going forward she would not be told to go bed at all. If by 8:30 PM she wasn't sleepy, she could do whatever she wanted provided it was a quiet activity; read a book, listen to a taped story, play with her dolls/toys, draw pictures etc. (there were no hand held screened devices in the 70s). The only caveat was that she stay in her room and work quietly.

By framing that alternative as a 'win' she took the deal. Not surprisingly, after some unstructured quiet time, she would invariably end up falling asleep around 9 anyway. It didn't take long before she was putting herself to bed on her own initiative. Peace and tranquility were thus restored.

As a child, one Christmas I received an Enid Blyton book. It had several stories within it's pages, all if them with a message. One was about a girl who asked for so many presents on her Christmas list and knitted an enormously long stocking to hold them all, that the only things she found on waking up, were vegetables and fruit...right to the toe. 'To greedy Marjory from Father Christmas' was on the tag.
(sorry, I went into memory mode there)
Another story was about two children who never wanted to pack up their toys at bedtime. It became such a struggle that, one night, the parents didn't tell them to tidy away when the clock chimed 8. They played on and on...and on and on. Later, the parents announced that they were going to bed and locked the doors etc and said goodnight.
The fire died down, the creaking of the house settling for the night was frightening, an owl hooted and shadows became scary. Their imaginations ran riot and they argued over their game as they became more tired. Mum came down to 'get a drink' and they asked could they go to bed. Mum acted surprised. 'I thought you weren't tired and were quite grown up', she said.
They looked forward to bedtime after that.

Oh I used to have a cassette with Enid Blyton stories on when my daughter was little.
"Sally the screamer" about a little girl who was kidnapped by an old lady so she could scream her house down for her. Tantamount to child abuse now, I would think.

Agree with Daddima. This is probably not about fears or sleepiness, it is attention-seeking. Calm consistency and insistence is what is required. It will make her feel more secure and loved, although your DD will have to put in the effort up-front. Try reading Beyond Toddlerdom: Keeping five to twelve year olds on the rails by Christopher Green. Practical common sense by a highly experienced paediatrician.

I can relate to so many posters up thread with our non- sleeper and she's still the same aged 47; a very accomplished adult who rises at 3.00 a.m. most mornings to get through her heavy work schedule, care for her family and complete the housework with a trip to the gym and a Zumba session most days.

I remarked to the clinic at the 6 week stage that she was awake through feeds and wouldn't sleep until after the second one. Their reaction was she'll sleep when she needs it. People advised wait till she's crawling, then, wait till she's walking, then it was wait till she starts school! At the age of three the GP referred us to a consultant at the children's hospital. She said, she's not like other children, because she doesn't need much sleep! She then referred to M. Thatcher and W. Churchill as non- sleepers. We felt relieved that there was no real problem other than she just wasn't tired at the perceived traditional bedtime.

So we established bedtime routine with bath, and ready for bed around 7.30 p.m. followed by bedtime story/stories and then she was able to draw, play and sing as long as she was in her room, till she was tired - no computers or tablets then. This continued for years. After a while, we decided it was detrimental for her to be alone in her room for hours so she was allowed to stay downstairs till 9 or 10 even before going to her room. She was sometimes awake into the early hours. People used to try to tell us we should be doing this and that. We knew different.

Some children just don't need as much sleep as others. I would say keep her busy in her room as long as it's safe. Make sure she's not unhappy about something of course and that there is no underlying childhood fear of the dark or fairy story monsters. Then establish a 'bedtime' and that any time after that is wind down time in the bedroom. Exhausting when there's two of you, so it must be really hard as a single Mum.

When she was 6 she came home from school one day and fell asleep on her bed in her school uniform around 6.30 and I said, she's ill. Her father said, No, she's just gone to sleep at a normal time for once. She had German measles.

As mentioned up thread you do not say how much screen time she has in the evening.If she is using a tablet ,even if the content is not scary , the blue light is said to inhibit sleep and shut be shut down an hour before bedtime.

We had one who would go to bed and sleep. The other who would go to bed and stay awake. It could be a natural thing for her. Might be worth her staying up a bit later, having a relax time, then bed.

I remember telling my children if they could stay awake all night they would get a 50p piece. They never managed it, it is hard to lie still and keep your eyes open. Joking aside, if your granddaughter can't sleep why not tell her she can look at books quietly until she's tired. Or could she listen to a relaxation tape?