Fat (topic du jour)

lizzypopbottle

Seven or eight years ago I was approximately eleven stone four pounds and, at my height, was nudging the overweight category of BMI. I didn't like that so I started 5:2 fasting. I lost weight steadily at around two pounds a week until my weight bottomed out naturally at nine stone or so. All these years later I am around nine stone four pounds and I maintain this by....guess what? 5:2 fasting! I'm fasting today, as it happens. Of course it works. Why wouldn't it? I've reduced my calorie intake by about 14%. I lost two stone in weight and it has stayed off! It works because I want it to and I'm determined.

A side benefit is that the pain of my arthritic thumbs and wrists has reduced to a very manageable level. I take no painkillers. This is because there's evidence showing that calorie restriction helps to reduce inflammation in the body.

I learned, on a personal development course through work, many years ago, that most things in life are a matter of choice. If I want a Greggs jam doughnut, every day, more than I want to lose weight, I will choose the daily doughnut (at 245 calories each). If I want to lose weight more than I want what I know isn't good for me, I will resist the doughnut (or whatever is my downfall food.)

Been doing the same thing for a while now and have almost reached my goal weight. It’s about discipline and being able to have those treats too because you’re in control. I’ve found that my Rheumatoid Arthritis is flaring less since I’ve been fasting intermittently too.

A very interesting thread. I also don’t believe being obese can be healthy. Apparently the nation was the healthiest it has ever been during the war years because of rationing, particularly sugar. I doubt there was much obesity then. With so much availability now it can be very hard to make the right choices. Lizzypopbottle, I agree with your doughnut analogy, I do that if I fancy something that I know is not going to do me any favours. Most of the time anyway…..

Skye17

Thinking about the Huffington Post article:

//Studies have found that anywhere from one-third to three-quarters of people classified as obese are metabolically healthy. They show no signs of elevated blood pressure, insulin resistance or high cholesterol. Meanwhile, about a quarter of non-overweight people are what epidemiologists call “the lean unhealthy [presumably metabolically unhealthy, i.e. they do show elevated blood pressure, insulin resistance or high cholesterol].”//

So whereas 33%-75% of obese people are metabolically unhealthy, only 25% of non-overweight people are. That’s a difference right there. Obese people are more likely to get diabetes.

That’s without looking at other aspects of health such as cancers, arthritis and, as the article says, heart problems.

//Individuals are not averages.// True. Because individuals vary, some bodies can cope with being obese better than others. But comparing one group of people with another, such as obese people with non-overweight people, can show that not being overweight reduces an individual’s probability of having various health problems. I’m not sure this journalist quite gets that.

If someone does their best to stay at a healthy weight, they are increasing their chances of good health. Of course it doesn’t always lead to good health, because other factors are involved (like nutrition, genetic predisposition to certain health problems, sleep, stress, substance abuse, social isolation, etc). That doesn’t mean it isn’t worth doing. I wouldn’t like to find out if my body is one of those that will handle obesity without health consequences, in case it’s not.

//diets don’t work/
But even if they don’t, changing what you eat does.

So whereas 33%-75% of obese people are metabolically unhealthy, only 25% of non-overweight people are. That’s a difference right there. Obese people are more likely to get diabetes.

My conclusion from those figures are that the article states that
anywhere from one-third to three-quarters of people classified as obese are metabolically healthy. They show no signs of elevated blood pressure, insulin resistance or high cholesterol.
Studies have shown that 33 - 75% of people classified as obese are metabolically healthy
It is, however, a very wide range

Having lost 2 stone 8 years ago and not put it back on. All I can say is that diets do work. Eat less and youlose weight. How otherwise do people die of starvation if they do not work.

The problem lies with the people that go on them, and that is a completely different problem.

If the diet you are currently eating (by diet, I mean your daily diet) leads to you putting on weight, not only must you eat much less to loose the weight, you also have to completely change your attitude to food and develop a new and different daily diet, which you enjoy, and which will keep your weight steady at a lower weight.

A simple example: we have been away on holiday with the family for the last week. Almost everyday offered opportunities to eat little pots of ice cream and most days this happened. In the past, even though I do not actually like ice cream very much, I would join in. However this last week I didn't eat any icecream, no sacrifice, no longing. I just saw no reason to eat something I didn't particularly like, so didn't. I have done this with a whole host of foods over the last 8 years. I also do not eat between meals, ubless I have a reason to be hungry.

These changes are difficult at first, but rapidly became my preferred option. I may never ever eat a pot of ice cream again.

Callistemon21

Skye17

Thinking about the Huffington Post article:

//Studies have found that anywhere from one-third to three-quarters of people classified as obese are metabolically healthy. They show no signs of elevated blood pressure, insulin resistance or high cholesterol. Meanwhile, about a quarter of non-overweight people are what epidemiologists call “the lean unhealthy [presumably metabolically unhealthy, i.e. they do show elevated blood pressure, insulin resistance or high cholesterol].”//

So whereas 33%-75% of obese people are metabolically unhealthy, only 25% of non-overweight people are. That’s a difference right there. Obese people are more likely to get diabetes.

That’s without looking at other aspects of health such as cancers, arthritis and, as the article says, heart problems.

//Individuals are not averages.// True. Because individuals vary, some bodies can cope with being obese better than others. But comparing one group of people with another, such as obese people with non-overweight people, can show that not being overweight reduces an individual’s probability of having various health problems. I’m not sure this journalist quite gets that.

If someone does their best to stay at a healthy weight, they are increasing their chances of good health. Of course it doesn’t always lead to good health, because other factors are involved (like nutrition, genetic predisposition to certain health problems, sleep, stress, substance abuse, social isolation, etc). That doesn’t mean it isn’t worth doing. I wouldn’t like to find out if my body is one of those that will handle obesity without health consequences, in case it’s not.

//diets don’t work/
But even if they don’t, changing what you eat does.

So whereas 33%-75% of obese people are metabolically unhealthy, only 25% of non-overweight people are. That’s a difference right there. Obese people are more likely to get diabetes.

My conclusion from those figures are that the article states that
anywhere from one-third to three-quarters of people classified as obese are metabolically healthy. They show no signs of elevated blood pressure, insulin resistance or high cholesterol.
Studies have shown that 33 - 75% of people classified as obese are metabolically healthy
It is, however, a very wide range

You are quite right. I need to read more carefully!

So 25%-67% of obese people are metabolically unhealthy, but 25% of non-overweight people are metabolically unhealthy.

Still not looking good. Even on that one aspect.

Skye17

So 25%-67% of obese people are metabolically unhealthy, but 25% of non-overweight people are metabolically unhealthy.

Still not looking good. Even on that one aspect.

It's such a wide range that it doesn't sound very carefully researched or scientific!

Hi, I think scientists now believe starvation does have long-term effects, even for future generations, but the detail is still being investigated. I've attached a link to a NY Times article re Dutch people that experienced starvation during WW2 (hoping you can read it as it's normally behind a paywall).

I also recall reading about Audrey Hepburn who said she was never able to put on weight, as an adult, as she had experienced malnutrition during WW2 in the Netherlands, as a child. It also caused her to have various diseases for her entire life. I think her experienced spurred her on to work with unicef, supporting international charity work to eliminate hunger.

www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/science/dutch-famine-genes.html

GillianP888

Hi, I think scientists now believe starvation does have long-term effects, even for future generations, but the detail is still being investigated. I've attached a link to a NY Times article re Dutch people that experienced starvation during WW2 (hoping you can read it as it's normally behind a paywall).

I also recall reading about Audrey Hepburn who said she was never able to put on weight, as an adult, as she had experienced malnutrition during WW2 in the Netherlands, as a child. It also caused her to have various diseases for her entire life. I think her experienced spurred her on to work with unicef, supporting international charity work to eliminate hunger.

www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/science/dutch-famine-genes.html

No, it doesn’t. Probably some of those studies are not that great.

GillianP888

Hi, I think scientists now believe starvation does have long-term effects, even for future generations, but the detail is still being investigated. I've attached a link to a NY Times article re Dutch people that experienced starvation during WW2 (hoping you can read it as it's normally behind a paywall).

I also recall reading about Audrey Hepburn who said she was never able to put on weight, as an adult, as she had experienced malnutrition during WW2 in the Netherlands, as a child. It also caused her to have various diseases for her entire life. I think her experienced spurred her on to work with unicef, supporting international charity work to eliminate hunger.

www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/science/dutch-famine-genes.html

Sorry GillianP888. I quoted the wrong comment. That was meant to be to Callistemon21.

I am currently on a low-carb eating regime (not a diet) as I have to take a high number of steroids (likely to be for several years, so no end in sight for me). Almost everything I eat (with the exception of protein) immediately turns to glucose and is converted to fat. Despite 'being good' and following the rules my weight is creeping up and I now have a 'moon face'.

It is quite dispiriting to see people thinking 'she's had a few Mars bars'! Not the case.

Metabolic rates differ wildly and what eating plan works for one may not for another.

Depending on one's metabolic rate, some people will lose weight almost effortlessly whilst others will struggle. If you are the former, lucky you but please don't assume that others are not trying.

Incidentally, someone mentioned being healthy and eating fruit. A few berries apart, fruit is a big no no for people like me and anyone who doesn't want to eat sugar - it will quickly turn to glucose and fat. I previously had no idea that fresh fruit could be 'bad'!

Most of us believe that its okay to consume sugar from fruits but sugar, in any form digests easily and is secreted into the blood stream. When the blood sugar level increases, the pancreas secretes insulin to control it. This insulin, in turn converts the sugar into fat and stores it below our skin. This increases fat and simultaneously your weight - if you don't burn off the sugar! There is no easy answer.

Now, where's that bag of crisps ...?

Yup. I love fruit and veg, but my GP warned me off fruit about 10 years ago. A shame, because I was just as happy with an apple as chocolate and assumed I was making healthy choices.

Several posts on this thread mention starvation and its negative health connotations. Nobody needs to starve themselves to lose weight. 5:2 fasting doesn't involve starvation. You simply consume a quarter of your (carefully calculated) daily calorie needs on two days of the week. The rest of the week you eat sensibly. For example, at my current weight and activity level, my TDEE (total daily energy expenditure - you can find a calculator on line to work yours out) is around 1850 kcals. So on my fasting days I restrict myself to 460 kcals. I'm fasting today (and I won't deny I'm hungry but I keep busy so I don't notice it too much) so I will have two boiled eggs and a slice of toast (low fat spread) for my dinner, a dash of milk in coffee and tea throughout the day, and a quarter cup of porridge oats made with water with a dozen blueberries before bed. I don't eat at all until dinnertime because eating makes me hungry for more. Tomorrow I will enjoy eating normally. Nothing, (except added sugar e.g. cakes, sweets, chocolate, biscuits etc.) is denied. I eat wholemeal bread, real butter, meat, fish, potatoes, pasta, cheese, yogurt, vegetables and fruit. I also enjoy a glass of red wine, other than on fasting days. I suppose that's a Mediterranean diet, more or less.

Interesting article. Not sure I agree with it. I stick to three meals a day, no snacking in between and lots of walking. I'm about half a stone overweight, but I don't worry about that.

Your thyroid health can have a big impact on weight gain/ loss. I call myself the incredible expanding and shrinking woman! I have had an overactive thyroid and down to size ten and had to continuously eat a lot of calories to prevent losing more weight. Now my thyroid is getting back to normal and I have a big belly even though eat small meals and no biscuits cakes or treats! I am interested in the intermittent fasting mentioned and will give it a go. I have so many lovely clothes that I can’t wear at the moment.

I've tried all diets over many decades. The best explanation of why diets don't work is in the book The Dukan Diet (or some such) by Dr Dukan. It's the diet that the Duchess of Cambridge and her mum do. The easy bit is losing the weight, as any fule no. What Dukan explains is why people put all the weight and more back on. He then goes on to explain how to.keep it off, which is the difficult part. Reader, I did it, three stone kept off for seven.years.

And still.off!

lizzypopbottle i completely agree with you. I too have lost weight on the 5:2 diet - and kept it off.

Keeping it off has got nothing to do with how you lose weight. It s accepting that if you go back to the eating pattern that made you fat, it will make you fat again. You need to develop a different eating pattern that you enjoy and keeps your weight steady. I now go to meetings and sit with a plate of chocolate digestive biscuits in front of me and do not feel the slightest inclination to eat one. No self sacrifice or will power, I just do not want to clag my mouth up with a factory manufactured biscuit mix, all E numbers, emulsifiers, sweetness enhancers, preservatives, palm oil, and heaven knows what else that leaves a nasty taste in your mouth for hours.

No I disagree with this post. The amount of junk food available now compared to 50 or 60 years ago in my opinion is the cause of so many people being obese. Also the lack of exercise due to families having cars or multiple cars. Take aways popping up on every high street too.
As individuals we are responsible for our own health and healthy food is fuel and essential for general health. As for exercise use it or lose it.
I know as we get older maintaining a healthy weight becomes a challenge and we all enjoy a treat, but the problem can be too many treats combined with inactivity.
Some people (not all) just make excuses for being overweight because they can't be bothered to cook healthy meals or move their bodies.

Madwoman11 Everyone has a choice and the presence of lots of junk food is no excuse for being overweight. There is also a far wider and enjoyable selection of fresh and healthy alternatives than there used to be.

If you do not normally eat highly processed foods, you soon find that your palate develops and on the rare ocasions you do eat them you usually find them unpalatable

when I was young, women and men were slim and so were children, I did not know anyone who was fat, then processed foods and fizzy pop came in and later fast food. Slowly the uk population became fat to obese and people drove around in cars, never walking to the shops or schools. Alcohol intake increased drastically. No wonder there is an obesity epidemic. Snacking foods are easily available, highly processed, fat-laden and designed to make people want that satisfaction in their mouths

Insulin control is poor in the majority, constant eating, especially carbs and sugars, keeps insulin high and leads to diabetes

Keeping to a healthy weight is a lifestyle change not a quick fix. A good start is to get rid of snack edibles, sugary items and so on because temptation will strike.

I lost weight successfully a while back going from nearly 11 stone to 9st 7lbs but am back up to just over 10 st which is borderline overweight for my height. I succeeded with portion control and cutting out the snacking.

Most of my meals are unprocessed - fresh fruit and veg, fish, very little meat BUT I do sometimes crave cakes and crisps. I don't think I'll ever stop wanting them and this is part of the problem of emotional eating for me. Being good all the time can feel pretty joyless and I get fed up having to prepare yet another meal. I loved cooking about 30-odd years ago but I've gone off it now and can't be alone in this.

Exactly what I said MOnica

karmalady

when I was young, women and men were slim and so were children, I did not know anyone who was fat, then processed foods and fizzy pop came in and later fast food. Slowly the uk population became fat to obese and people drove around in cars, never walking to the shops or schools. Alcohol intake increased drastically. No wonder there is an obesity epidemic. Snacking foods are easily available, highly processed, fat-laden and designed to make people want that satisfaction in their mouths

Insulin control is poor in the majority, constant eating, especially carbs and sugars, keeps insulin high and leads to diabetes

Keeping to a healthy weight is a lifestyle change not a quick fix. A good start is to get rid of snack edibles, sugary items and so on because temptation will strike.

I totally agree with you. Also with all the streaming services on TV and fast food ads there is temptation everywhere.
However we all have free will and can choose to not eat for the sake of it. I know that sometimes seeing a food ad makes me want the food even though I am not hungry.

I'm fat, and unhealthy; diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, falls, strokes, blood clots the works.

I was a skinny'ish individual, and that's when the above began. Interestingly, my mother had the same diagnosis, as do my sister's, my son, and daughter. Diet? Generally considered to be healthy!

What does all that mean?