Payment for prescriptions

And how about consulting patients when making appointments , so that they can have an appointment that fits in with buses, or the availability of lifts, or the need to take medication so that appointments are not cancelled and patients do not have to go back into a lottery for another appointment.

DD turned up at the hospital at 7.00am for a major op, to discover that her surgeons operating session had been cancelled and they had forgotten to tell her.

M0nica

And how about consulting patients when making appointments , so that they can have an appointment that fits in with buses, or the availability of lifts, or the need to take medication so that appointments are not cancelled and patients do not have to go back into a lottery for another appointment.

DD turned up at the hospital at 7.00am for a major op, to discover that her surgeons operating session had been cancelled and they had forgotten to tell her.

Yes - 'no shows' would be reduced if patients weren't sent letters with 'An appointment has been made for you at X time', which may or may not be possible for them to attend.

Sorry to hear about your daughter's cancelled op - I hope it has been rescheduled and that it went well if so.

The, seldom mentioned, main idea behind the 'free prescriptions for all' legislation in Scotland, is that it has been proved to be cost neutral. The huge sum saved by closing down a whole department whose sole purpose was to check that only the groups who were entitled to free prescriptions got them. Add to that the cost of extra checking work foisted on to pharmacies and Surprise, Surprise, these savings equal the cost of Free For ALL. I suspect that the same equation would apply to charging for missed appointments, hospital food.

PS - when DH was on end of life care in Hospital, all he could manage to eat was yoghurt and ice crème. I was amazed to learn that the abundant supplies of tubs of ice-cream & Yoghurt (also offered to family keeping vigil) came free, courtesy of a generous, local manufacturer/supplier

Witzend

*Callistemon21*, I’m not surprised at the number of no-shows. Dh was not,long ago given an appt.for a minor procedure - at the wrong clinic. He turned up on time for it, only to be turned away. So that surgeon’s time - at the right clinic - was wasted.

And a BiL with cancer who was having regular appts. recently had an appt. letter sent to the address he’d moved from 17 years previously! Just as well the residents knew where to forward the letter to - in time.
It would seem that all too often, NHS admin is chaotic.

Plus I’ve heard of so many cases where relatives of people with dementia have repeatedly told the hospital not to send appt letters to the dementia sufferer - or at least to copy a relative in - because even if the person doesn’t throw the letter away, they will never remember.
But the same thing happens again and again - ‘Oh, we can’t do that - patient confidentiality….’
Yes, but what’s the point, if they’re just going to miss appt. after appt and waste everybody’s time?

I was called for a colonoscopy as a result of the bowel cancer screening test a few years ago. I was given preliminary results afterwards and told I would get a follow up outpatient appointment in about 8 weeks. I got the letter, followed by a cancellation letter the next day. The re-arranged appointment was also cancelled and when I finally got an appointment when I turned up the appointment had been cancelled again and the letter informing me was ‘lost’. I never got any more, despite trying my best via the hospital and GP. When this years’ screening test turned up I got the all clear. It’s no surprise to me that the early cancer diagnosis figures are so bad for the UK if this is anything like typical.

My mum, who lives with us has had dementia for three years. I have her power of attorney and have exhausted myself pleading with both GP and hospital clinics to address all correspondence to me, as mum hides or bins anything addressed to her. They have taken absolutely no notice and we have been contacted several times by both to find out why we have missed appointments.

Mum has recently been diagnosed with breast cancer and despite informing the breast care clinic that she has advanced dementia and to address everything to me, they too are ignoring me in favour of patient confidentiality. So now, we’re running the risk of missing appointments for a life threatening disease. In addition, despite me clearly stating that I have mums’ LPA and that I did not want her told she has cancer, they did exactly that at our last clinic visit. Power of attorney and the wishes of those living with the patient in difficult circumstances don’t seem to count for much.

Witzend

As long as it’s efficiently means tested, I honestly don’t see why not. It’s often said how much better healthcare is in other European countries - but many do charge for various things.

According to my Swedish friend, everyone there pays something for prescriptions (with an annual cap), for visits to GP and A&E, and the ‘board’ element of hospital stays.
And Sweden is popularly supposed to be some sort of socialist Utopia.

As for pensioners’ free prescriptions, it used to infuriate me to see how a friend of ours stockpiled masses of various items - only for them all to be periodically thrown away. I once counted over 60 items in his bathroom - half a dozen each of this and that. When he died he left 2 houses paid for and well over £1m cash. But he was as tight as they come - if he’d had to pay even £2-3 each I bet he’d never have taken so many things he evidently didn’t need. He was even getting paracetamol on prescription, FGS - it costs pennies in supermarkets.

And I bet he’s not the only such case, far from it.

What government will ever have the guts to introduce any such thing, though? They’ll all be terrified of losing votes.
People moan about creeping privatisation, but unless we start paying a bit more, that’s going to be the alternative.

A bit off topic, but I for one would like to see charges for people who end up in A&E purely because they’ve had far too much to drink!

Since when has anything in the UK been ‘efficiently means tested’ ? Unfortunately arbitrary thresholds are set so low as to leave people who genuinely struggle, without support. No reason to think it would be any different with prescription charges. And free prescriptions for pensioners is because in the main, as you get to pension age you have more health issues and not as much income. Do we really want to get to the stage where people can’t afford essential medication ? Means testing doesn’t work - it gives authorities the tool to screen out vast swathes of people who struggle and just miss the cut off point.

Doodledog

*I would get rid of free prescriptions, the various winter fuel payments, free bus passes and all the other bells and whistles of dribbles of little bits of money here and there that those over retirement age get.*
I can see the thinking behind this except that free prescriptions for older people are in recognition of the fact that older people are more likely to need more treatment than younger ones.

Leaving them free means that people don't have to choose between treating one condition or another, or just not taking the treatment at all. It's not a level playing field if everyone gets an extra £10 a week but some have to spend £20 (or more) to stay alive and others nothing.

The reason these are 'free' and separate and the money not included as part of the State Pension is so that they can be taken away again if the government of the day so decides. This has just happened with the TV licence.

Yes, fair point. I still think that when everyone contributes there should not be a situation where those with poor health should be impoverished by charges when those lucky enough not to need prescriptions should profit from it, though.

Me neither.

And I think there should be good, free school meals for all children at State schools. No discrimination.
It could save the NHS money in the future too.

Just skimmed through this - if I had to pay for my prescriptions, that would £72 ish per month.

Ladyleftfieldlover

Just skimmed through this - if I had to pay for my prescriptions, that would £72 ish per month.

No, it wouldn't because you could get an annual "season ticket".

What an informative thread this is. The combined experience of Gransnetters could provide an excellent Board of Trustees for the charitable trust that someone proposed to run the NHS.

Doodledog you so much better than I would, so I have quoted your post.

Oh no, it didn’t work, I wonder why.

Anyway I meant you say it better than I could.

Zonne

We don’t have an equivalent healthcare system to Germany, and I don’t see that cherry picking bits of theirs and bolting them will help.

Means testing always costs more than it saves, anyway. Charging for GP visits will just stop ill people going, or delay them going until the cost of treatment is higher than it would have been.

And, of course, ‘paying a token amount’ to improve access has failed with dentistry, so I’d need to see very strong evidence that it wouldn’t do so for other parts of the NHS.

I am m all for having g a wide-ranging, citizen and expert (ie not politicians) led England and Wales wide conversation about the kind of healthcare we want and how it is to be funded, but reports produced in isolation like this aren’t helpful, imo.

I also agree with Zonne.

The latest form of appointment, following a referral for a hospital appointment which I’d been told could take up to 3 months arrived after a week and went like this;
Hi Mxxxx we have developed a new online service that lets you choose and book an appointment on a date and a time that suits you - please try it out. You can book your appointment yourself within the next 48 hours by clicking this secure link.
That arrived on my phone(complete with a link) so I obediently looked at the appointments available and booked an appointment at a date and time that suited me.
Confirmation arrived. So exciting.

A few days later I got a follow up message to say that unfortunately that appointment wasn’t available due to changes in the system. The next day I got a text saying

Hi Mxxxx we have developed a new online service that lets you choose and book an appointment on a date and a time that suits you - please try it out. You can book your appointment yourself within the next 48 hours by clicking this secure link.
I did rebook, and asked for paper confirmation, which arrived, but I await further texts . . .

Ladyleftfieldlover You can get a Prescription Prepayment Certificate. £30.25 for 3 months, £108.10 for a year. That will cover all your prescriptions. You would not need to pay £72 a month, just £9 - £10 a month, depending on whether you bought a quarterly or annual Prepayment Certificate

volver

There two kinds of people in the world.

Those that think the NHS should free at the point of use and that funding should be from the public purse whether you are the Queen or the person who cleans her toilets.

And those that think money is the answer to everything and people should be sanctioned for missing appointments, and that the cost of collecting £4 a day from an as-yet-undefined proportion of hospital residents is in any way a valid response, when what is actually required is an overhaul of the NHS.

Move to Scotland. Prescriptions free at point of need.

Couldn't agree more. Agree to the kind of charges being suggested as you are on the first step of a very slippery slope to privatisation of the NHS.

Ladyleftfieldlover

Just skimmed through this - if I had to pay for my prescriptions, that would £72 ish per month.

It wouldn't - it would be £108 pa if you bought a prepaid prescription pass.

I am against a small charge being levied on patients in hospital, because once that is accepted, it will almost certainly rapidly increase to a high charge.

How about free prescriptions for people over state pension age, those with long term conditions or are on benefits? They're already known about/registered etc so no need for more admin.

I’ve just checked to see if the rules have changed since I retired from DWP. And they haven’t. State Pension is not affected by a stay in hospital.

Doodledog Leaving them free means that people don't have to choose between treating one condition or another, or just not taking the treatment at all. It's not a level playing field if everyone gets an extra £10 a week but some have to spend £20 (or more) to stay alive and others nothing.

No, everyone's pension would be increased by the cost of an annual prescription prepayment certficate, similarly winter fuelpayments, cost of free bus passes. We would just get a larger weekly pension and then be free to spend the money as we wished. If someone chose not to buy a cheap prescription 'season ticket' that would be their decision and they would need to pay for each prescription they required - assuming of course that they were on any medication.

growstuff

Ladyleftfieldlover

Just skimmed through this - if I had to pay for my prescriptions, that would £72 ish per month.

No, it wouldn't because you could get an annual "season ticket".

IIRC, my Swedish friend said that their annual cap, no matter how many were needed, was no more than about £100.

Her dad, who was over 90 and not well off, still had to pay for his.

I have wondered for some time why actual letters are posted out from the NHS, my bank, insurance, utilities and many other services I use have given me the option to go paperless, I emphasise ‘option’. We have the NHS app, so why isn’t this extended and used more? Contact by email, text or via the app must be a time and money saver why not NHS?