selling my house

Welcome bichon hope you enjoy gransnet

I can't help you but someone will be along before too long who can.

hello kittylester thank you for your reply im looking forward to being here,with like minded people

Welcome bichon, I'm would have thought if your son owns half the property then a sale couldn't be forced, however, I am sure there are others who will be able to advise you

bishon, I am pretty sure that the house would not have to be sold. I am sure you will soon see a post from Frank aka HunterF, he is a mine of information on this very subject .
Welcome to Gransnet , hope you hang around for more than this thread -it is a great place!

Hi Shysal

I only really studied this subject to make sure I could not be forced out of the jointly owned house when I joined my father after my wife and mother passed away.

Bichonmad

If you look at Age Concern Factsheet 38 you will see the council could not force a sale.
The only other thing to bear in mind a Social Worker might say things like you would have a better choice of Care Home if you self fund but you could take the Local Authority funding and just pay a top up.
Hopefully you will never have to go in to care but if the problem is health related the NHS is liable for all the Care Home Funding.
Unfortunately you have to fight for your rights and be thick skinned.
In 1 case I was involved in the Social Worker had been told the patient was entitled to NHS funding and a place had been found.
The Social Worker said it could take weeks for the funding to be approved and the room in the care home could be lost if the daughter did not provide the funding.
The daughter stood firm and the mother was transferred to the care home 3 days later at the expense of the NHS.

Frank

Hi bichonmad welcome, funny name you have there but hey I can't talk

I think that the best thing for you could be to get some real financial advise, really the best people to go to would be AGE CONCERN

I appreciate that you are very worried about this and they can help you organise and put something in place should this happen as it may NOT

My Father died aged 77 and he did not go into care, my Father in law still alive, aged 88 and is not in care.

But always good to plan for the worse. Good luck with everything

thank you jadey,the name comes from my love of my 2 bichon dogs,im not very good at thinking of unusual names so its a safe easy bet really

thank you hunterf thats a load off my mind,

Hi Bichonmad, Your son shouldn't have to sell the house. My husband is in a care home with Alzheimers Disease and he owns half our house. When he went into the home, I changed from Joint Tenancy to Tenants in Common. I think I remember being told that was quite important to do.

Have a look at a site called Talking Point (Alzheimer's Society) there are lots of people on there who can tell you anything you want to know to put your mind at rest.

Hi Minder

I agree that is important if you have children.
If you happen to pre decease your husband and the ownership is joint your half will go to your husband and the council would be able to take this money if his care comes to more than half the house value.
Have you looked in to fully funded NHS Continuing Care?.
Sadly this has happened in one of the care homes I have visited but I do not know the financial circumstances.

Frank

Hi Geraldine

If you look at the Crag report and Age Concern Factsheet 38 you will see the son will not be legally obliged to sell as the father's share will be worthless on the market as nobody will buy half a house with somebody in it.

That said the son may have get assertive with the social worker or care assessor.
I have known cases where the Social Worker has said that the house would have to be sold in the hope the person does not know the law.
In another case the daughter was told to downsize her house as it was 5 bedroomed and she would be left in it on her own.
The mother lived there but never owned a house.
The daughter complained to the council but the answer was it was only a suggestion and she was not obliged to downsize.

Frank

Another situation which could arise is if a person has given up a home to care for the patient for a substantial time the authority has discretionary powers to disregard the house.
A leaflet issued by Birmingham does state that in this situation it would want to know the financial circumstances of the carer.
Also what is a substantial time?.

Frank

Hi Frank,

Thank you for your reply. My husband has been getting the NHS Continuing Care for the past 6 years and of course he is reviewed every year and in July last year they decided he didn't qualify anymore. I now have an invoice from our County Council for over £3,000. This is the top up fees from when the CC was stopped last year. I have actually got an appeal going on at the moment (which has cost me £400 to date) because I don't agree that his CC should have stopped. He certainly hasn't got any better, no-one ever does with this disease do they.

I have a very good solicitor who deals with making sure the government etc don't get their hands on our money/homes where possible. He is local to me in the East of England but there are probably others around the country who do the same thing. I have always found the Alzheimer's Society extremely helpful and am a member of the Talking Point forum.

I find it all very complicated, they certainly don't make it easy to understand.

Minder.

Hi Minder

Did you agree to pay top up fees?.

Frank

Hi Frank,

He still gets benefits which I find unbelieveable to be honest so I assume (after many years of asking why he was getting them still) that this is what they are for.

On top of all this, I had a letter yesterday to inform me that the Early Onset Unit at his home is to close so now we have the stress of finding somewhere else for him. It's not going to be easy and definitely not easy for him and the other service users being in a new place with new carers. The home he is in is fabulous and so are all the staff. Hopefully he won't have to go too far away as I don't drive.

Minder

Hi Minder

If you mean attendance allowance he should not be getting this if he is on NHS Continuing Care.
I know he will still get his state and occupational pension. One of the people I know still gets heating allowance. His daughter has queried this as she is not 60 and she has it in writing it is payable even though the father is in care fully funded by the NHS.
In her case she and the father are joint owners of the house and she is now the sole occupier.
I don't know about things like pension credit as all the people I have been involved with have reasonable occupational pensions.

I hope your husband gets somewhere soon. I do know somebody who was refused admission to about 30 homes due to violence problems.
Even in this case the offspring was told this person's care would have to be self funded but after some argument the NHS funded the care as it was mental health problems.

Frank

Hi Frank,

No, he gets DLA and ESA - is it? The old Incap Benefit. He doesn't get state pension yet as he is only 62 years old. I did get a letter telling me that his heating allowance would be paid which is the first time I've had that so I rang them and told them the situation so they didn't put it in the bank thankfully.

I would like to move as soon as I can retire in a couple of years (if I can afford to) but I know I have to make probision for my husband, even though he will never come back home to live with me. I would like a much smaller house and garden but I only have a very small amount of savings and would only have my state pension to live on which I don't get until January 2015.

I hope we can find somewhere for him soon too, thank you. I have a meeting next week at his Care Home. Fourteen early onset residents looking for another place to live.

Minder.

Hi Minder

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS38_Treatment_of_property_in_the_means_test_for_permanent_care_home_provision_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

Look at the above carefully.
If you move to a smaller cheaper property say selling your old property for £200,000 and buying a new property for £150,000 the council may snatch £50,000 and you may get no benefit from the 50k.
I should consult your solicitor before you downsize.

Frank

So I have a 5 bedroom house in Surrey worth 2 million- where I live with my husband. He has to go into care - and other people who are much much poorer than me have to pay for him so I can stay in said 5 bedrooms, 3 bathroom home with a few acres. And when dies, I can sell for 2 million and pocket the money. If that how it works - is that fair???

Hi Granjura

You are right.
It is difficult to be fair all round.

Taking me as an example I inherited my mothers share of a house worth about £500,000 meaning I owned £250,000 worth and Dad owned the other half.
I went to live with Dad and spent about £70,000 on the house and £50,000 for Dad's personal needs like his private medical insurance etc.
If Dad had to go in to care his share of the house would have been £250,000 less £70,000 less 50,000 equals £130,000.
If the council were within their rights to take half I would have lost £120,000.
If Dad had lived for say another 10 years and I had continued to spend money on him his share of the house would probably be zero.

The reasoning behind the law however is councils do not want to make husbands / wives homeless and if the son is a part owner occupier they have the right to live in the property making the parents share worthless as there is no market for half a house with somebody in it.

Frank

Hi Frank,

Sorry I disappeared. Had some bad news. My Auntie's long term partner was found dead in bed today. Auntie is in hospital and has dementia so I'm going up to Yorkshire tomorrow and have to tell her. Whether she will understand or not is another thing. Then have to also have to try and make her understand that she will never go home again and will have to go in a home. He was 89 and she is 87.

Anyway, thank you for the link. I will read that very carefully when I get home on Sunday.

Minder.

Hi Minder

Sorry to hear the news.
I have got doubts if your Auntie will understand.
Some time ago when I sat in on a meeting re the fathers care the father was calling me another name and he had been calling a female nurse by the son's name.
When I came out I asked who this person was and I was told he had passed away about 30 years ago.

Frank

Morning,

Thank you. Well, can't go up North today as my cousin has been ill all night. It's a 3 hour drive.

I have doubts my Auntie will understand too, we won't be just telling her her partner has passed away but that she can't go back to her home. We will have to get in touch with social services- but I think the hospital do that anyway - and try to find her a home. It would be better if she were to come to Cambridgeshire near us but we will have to see. If she is having a 'good day', she will probably understand.

That can't be said for my husband though as he doesn't know me and doesn't speak so it's going to be hard these next few weeks.

Very sorry to the OP for taking over your thread, I have waffled about my own problems.

Minder