Has everybody invested their ISA money?.

Btw, can I just say I did n' t mean any poster was money obsessed. Was referring to son.

Movedalot and Sel Many women, whether young or older, still suffer worse treatment than men in many ways in our society today simply because they are women. That is undeniable. I didn't suggest quotas or positive discrimination to establish greater equality although I think they might be interesting ideas to explore more thoughtfully.

To suggest that such discrimination no longer exists struck me as cheerful over-optimism – hence my use of the word sanguine – and I simply wondered whether such a blinkered viewpoint stemmed from not having to concern oneself with the future prospects of daughters. I certainly made no suggestion that anyone was unbalanced.

Possibly we are comparing apples and pears absent You are talking more about women in relationships than in employment. Violence against women continues I agree but empowering women through education to enable them to be independent financially has helped I would have thought. I don't have the stats to hand but surely things have improved in this regard or is it just the reporting of the crimes?

absent your response to my Friday post seemed to suggest that you thought women were not better off today that 40 years ago and that I didn't understand that, possibly because I have sons. You now suggest I have a 'blinkered viewpoint'. I would suggest that you have a narrow viewpoint. I am still female, I have 2 DiLs, one soon to be DiL and lots of friends why would I not see women's points of view?

Please explain where you got the idea that I suggested "such discrimination no longer exists". It seems to me that you have again misread my post.

Violence does happen against women but women are sometimes violent against men.
I was attacked by a woman who was drunk in Birmingham a few weeks ago in front of a police officer.
She was arrested and she was calling us both male chauvinist pigs and swearing etc.
There was a cctv camera on us at the time and other witnesses. A woman police officer was there about a minute later and got abuse.
I was asked by the police if I wanted to make a complaint but I just told them to do what they thought was right.
I was not concerned about what had happened to me but I was concerned that she might have done something like hit a child and the consequences could be a lot more serious.
That was also the main concern of the police officer.
The police took my name and address and a statement and said they would contact me if necessary.

Frank

So many women have had difficult lives and had no choice but to put up with it. Young women today will never have to suffer worse treatment just because they are female but we don't keep moaning about it, we just get on with our lives.

There's no mention of 40 years ago in your post or mine. I wasn't comparing now and forty years ago (or fifty according to Sel). I was simply pointing out that women still endure discrimination on the basis of their gender. That is an indisputable fact.

I suggested that your inability to acknowledge the continuing existence of gender discrimination might be something to do with not having daughters. Not acknowledging a well-established fact is, by definition, a blinkered viewpoint.

What does your sentence in bold above mean if it does not mean that you are saying that discrimination on the basis of gender no longer exists?

This is extremely boring.

absent I agree your constant picking on my posts is boring. You knew what I meant, others knew what I meant, you chose to pick it about, as you say boring.

absent you talk about a huge gender pay gap - where? Is there a specific area where men are paid hugely more than women for doing the same work?

I worked in an office for about 9 years and all the staff were of a reasonably high grade.
I don't know the reason why but women did not seem to want to work there except for 1.
We could not go and grab women off the street and say you must come and work for us.

Frank

Sel The same or equivalent work, yes. Try government statistics or the Fawcett society or any number of think tanks.

Movedalot Knowing what is in your mind and reading what you say are not necessarily the same things. I cannot do the former, however magical other grannies may be, but I can do the latter.

Even if what you say is eventually disentangled…

CBA.

Whatever.

absent the right to equal pay is enshrined in law surely? I can understand that women tend to earn less than men if they have responsibility for children but that is different to what you claimed.

Bumping this up absent in the hope of a response

Thanks Granny23. I think a lot of older men don't realise the inequalities either!

I took advantage of the firms pensions I was eligible for when I returned to work post child rearing. Cashed the first in for just under £1000 (not transferrable) and bought a car and the second pays out the princely sum of £130 per quarter which I rebelliously squander.

And I believe statistics show (love that phrase) that women still earn less than men.

I know several women who complain that they are getting little more than the state pension and they think it is unfair.
When you ask them if they contributed to any sort of pension scheme you find they may have either not contributed to any scheme or they may have contributed for times like 2 years.
Surely they can tell themselves why they are not getting much pension.

Frank

Perhaps when they were younger it was reasonable to expect the state pension to be adequate. It is only fairly recently that everyone has been urged to pay into separate schemes.

I don't complain that I don't get much pension. I resisted government encouragement to 'opt out' and pay the lower married woman's rate so get my full state pension. What I do complain about is men who think I could have paid into a private pension earlier than I did. Or that I was able to earn sufficient to make contributions worth while.

Many women now retired had fractured work histories, many with years spent at home with domestic responsibilities when they could not afford even to keep up voluntary contributions to the state scheme..

I worked for seven years before I had children and paid into pension schemes throughout those times, but I changed my job several times and, at that time, if you did not contribute into a scheme for 5 years when you left your contributions were returned, so I have no pension to show for those years. That rule has gone now but people like me still suffer from when it was in place.

When I came back to work I came back part time, as many women do, and was excluded from the company pension scheme because I was a part timer, again that has changed, but that is of no use to me or people like me who worked part time.

When I did go back to work full time I was fortunate, I worked at a senior level for a big company. I had a good salary and as well as paying into a well funded and managed scheme I was also able to afford to make substantial AVCs, which was fortunate, as I was made redundant in my early 50s and although I then continued to pay voluntary contributions to the state scheme when not working, I never again before reaching retirement age had any kind of work that provided an opportunity to pay into a pension scheme.

My employment history is not untypical of women who are now retired, I am fortunate that when I did return to work I was well paid and could make contributions, but relatively few women in my generation had that advantage.

That is why so many women have very small pensions and some justly feel aggrieved at how little they have to live on.

Are you listening Frank?

FlicketyB

I here what you are saying.
My father's ex complained she only had a small pension plus a small widows pension from her husband's employment and I was reminded of this several times by her supporters who kept on saying she should have the house.
As far as I am concerned I worked for my pension for 34 years in London and 5 years for the council in Birmingham and paid AVC'S and the house was willed to me and I had spent a lot of money on it.
Really I think she just wanted to sell the house to get the money.
The fact she may have not had a lot of money was not however my problem.
She did ask Dad if he would pay for them to go on cruises etc but Dad said no.

Frank

Is there a brick wall anywhere?

Can't imagine why women didn't want to work in Frank's office...

I think it is called tunnel vision.

Ariadne

I think the 1 woman who worked in the office had the sense to know where the money was.
Just before Christmas we tended to bring our children for some food etc and I can remember her remarking that non of the men had a son and she had 2 boys.
Those 2 poor boys had a party with 17 girls.

Frank