Times article claim that Waspi women are tone deaf and should read the room

Looking at the prospects for our adult children, sorry, I agree with him.
The information was out there 🤷‍♀️

I agree; the information was there, and I cannot support a demand for payment of extra pension to which people are not entitled.

eazybee

I agree; the information was there, and I cannot support a demand for payment of extra pension to which people are not entitled.

But how does one become 'entitled' to a pension? Many people get them after hardly paying in at all - are they 'entitled'?

I don't think it is reasonable to take money compulsorily from those who work, on the understanding that they will get a pension at 60, then change the rules when they are 45 or whatever. Not everyone is in a position to make up the difference, and back then there were fewer ways to do so.

I knew of the changes, but was not sent a letter, email or any sort of communication (HMRC confirmed this when I sent a FOI request to ask them). I can't remember how I found out, but I fully accept that many people would not have known. For one thing I don't think the information was 'out there' in the way that information is now, and for another, a lot of people trusted the government to do the right thing, and didn't listen to or read media about financial matters.

Many still don't - on my local FB page there were lots of complaints from people saying they had been denied a vote in the recent elections. They hadn't been, of course - there were no elections in our area, as we had ours last year. Similarly, there was a TV news item last night about a possible change of PM, and a woman trotted out media snippets about Starmer ('flip flop', 'rabbit in the headlights' etc etc) then said she'd never heard of Wes Streeting, but had heard of Westlife. Not everyone is 'tuned in', and governments know this. Communication channels need to take account of different levels of engagement, and they know that, too, but they chose to avoid controversy by keeping 'notifications' to channels where many people would not come across them.

Basgetti

Looking at the prospects for our adult children, sorry, I agree with him.
The information was out there 🤷‍♀️

The prospects for our adult children will be heavily affected by the increasing number who can’t or don't work.

Agreed, Molly. I think working age people are fed up with being the ones who have to subsidise everything. The government needs to wise up to that and somehow make it the case that people are always better off in work than not. If they don't, the populists will take advantage of public discontent, and heaven help us all.

This has all been argued over many many times and explained many many times.

I suspect that many claiming the information was “out there” have not bothered to read the PHSO reports. Nor are they aware of the surveys that were done in 2003/4 and 2007 that showed just how many women didn’t know what their new State Pension age was.

Otherwise, the PHSO would not have concluded after a six year investigation that there was maladministration and setting out a chart for compensation.

I was in the cohort of women who were never going to be told personally what their new SP age was - those born after May 1955.

What I do have is a letter from the Pension Service (part of DWP) dated 2007 with accompanying leaflet categorically telling me that I will be able to claim my SP when I am 60. I was then 52.

In other words, twelve years after the 1995 Pensions Act, DWP were still sending out wrong information.

Coincidentally, in 2007, the DWP finally admitted that its information campaign was not working. They knew this is 2003 but did nothing about it.

Extract from PHSO.

115. Unpublished DWP research from 2007 found 85% of women aged 48 to 59 knew State Pension age was going to be equalised, but many women did not know when it would happen. The research also found that 50% of women whose State Pension age had risen to between 60 and 65, and 36% of women whose State Pension age had risen to 65, still thought that it was 60. DWP told us that if people are aware of the changes, they can find out their own State Pension age.

116. An internal DWP memo from April 2007 described the 2007 research findings as ‘depressing reading’. The memo reflects on the lack of progress since 2004 and the prospect of future complaints from women. It states:

‘You floated the idea of contacting the Ombudsman to get a feel for how she would react to claims from women saying they had never been told or were not aware that state pension age is increasing. In the light of the lack of upward movement from our 43% base figure from 3 years ago, we suggest putting this off until we can explain our strategy from here to get the message over. If we go now, we face being painted into a corner. Despite a really strong defensive brief, we still have 50% “ignorance levels” with three years to go. [The Ombudsman’s] first question will be what are you proposing to do about it?’

117. A ministerial submission from December 2007 shows DWP knew people did not understand the impact of the changes for them. It says: ‘One of the key issues is that whilst some women do in fact have an awareness of the impending change, they do not understand how this relates specifically to them’.

When, at the outset women were supposed to be given fifteen years notice of the change, it took the DWP from 1995 to 2009, 14 years to get around telling only some of them.

I don’t expect compensation but I will challenge any women or man who trots out the tired “information out there” argument.

Ready the PHSO reports and surveys.

Graphite

This has all been argued over many many times and explained many many times.

I suspect that many claiming the information was “out there” have not bothered to read the PHSO reports. Nor are they aware of the surveys that were done in 2003/4 and 2007 that showed just how many women didn’t know what their new State Pension age was.

Otherwise, the PHSO would not have concluded after a six year investigation that there was maladministration and setting out a chart for compensation.

I was in the cohort of women who were never going to be told personally what their new SP age was - those born after May 1955.

What I do have is a letter from the Pension Service (part of DWP) dated 2007 with accompanying leaflet categorically telling me that I will be able to claim my SP when I am 60. I was then 52.

In other words, twelve years after the 1995 Pensions Act, DWP were still sending out wrong information.

Coincidentally, in 2007, the DWP finally admitted that its information campaign was not working. They knew this is 2003 but did nothing about it.

Extract from PHSO.

115. Unpublished DWP research from 2007 found 85% of women aged 48 to 59 knew State Pension age was going to be equalised, but many women did not know when it would happen. The research also found that 50% of women whose State Pension age had risen to between 60 and 65, and 36% of women whose State Pension age had risen to 65, still thought that it was 60. DWP told us that if people are aware of the changes, they can find out their own State Pension age.

116. An internal DWP memo from April 2007 described the 2007 research findings as ‘depressing reading’. The memo reflects on the lack of progress since 2004 and the prospect of future complaints from women. It states:

‘You floated the idea of contacting the Ombudsman to get a feel for how she would react to claims from women saying they had never been told or were not aware that state pension age is increasing. In the light of the lack of upward movement from our 43% base figure from 3 years ago, we suggest putting this off until we can explain our strategy from here to get the message over. If we go now, we face being painted into a corner. Despite a really strong defensive brief, we still have 50% “ignorance levels” with three years to go. [The Ombudsman’s] first question will be what are you proposing to do about it?’

117. A ministerial submission from December 2007 shows DWP knew people did not understand the impact of the changes for them. It says: ‘One of the key issues is that whilst some women do in fact have an awareness of the impending change, they do not understand how this relates specifically to them’.

When, at the outset women were supposed to be given fifteen years notice of the change, it took the DWP from 1995 to 2009, 14 years to get around telling only some of them.

I don’t expect compensation but I will challenge any women or man who trots out the tired “information out there” argument.

*Ready the PHSO reports and surveys.*

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

I too am in that cohort, 1958, I too did know about the increase, but not informed formally and too late to pay more when it mattered and retire at 60 as planned. I have poor health, and have had since the birth f my son in 2002, and was only able to retire early at the end of 2022 due the death of my mother.

The information was out and about for a long time, but I am realising with some of my friends and acquaintances that they never pick up a newspaper, rarely watch or listen to TV/radio news or take any interest in current affairs. Someone asked me the other day what' all the political stuff was on the television;' (it was Starmer delivering his make or break speech) and when I explained she said, oh I never listen to that sort of thing. She doesn't read emails either.
I find it astonishing.

I agree with young man too. I didn't used to keep up with current affairs but I knew this change was coming, it was widely covered.
I just miss out on being WASPI, but I still had to work 7 years longer than I was anticipating to get my pension.
Might feel a bit differently if I had a hope of £££ because of that, but I do agree pension age for men & women should be the same.

eazybee

The information was out and about for a long time, but I am realising with some of my friends and acquaintances that they never pick up a newspaper, rarely watch or listen to TV/radio news or take any interest in current affairs. Someone asked me the other day what' all the political stuff was on the television;' (it was Starmer delivering his make or break speech) and when I explained she said, oh I never listen to that sort of thing. She doesn't read emails either.
I find it astonishing.

For something as crucial as this move on women’s pensions individual letters should have been sent out to each and every women affected. We are not talking about a year or so, this was SIX years in one fail swoop, without adequate notice to make arrangements to pay in more and be to still retire at 60, then bigger me, they out it up to 67 for many of us.

In addition those of us who did stay on in full time work after 60, were still clobbered with NI payments, which those woman eligible for retirement at 50, but who chose to continue working, did not have to stay, in some cases there would be been only a year or so between the ages of said women!

Doodledog I found out through my elder sister of 5 years, she got the 62, I got the 66. Still worked until 69, just deferred SP.

I was not sent a letter, email or any comms. Extra would be nice but I’d rather it go to low income youngsters 🤗

I wish the WASPI movement would bow out gracefully. I’m 68 and the information most definitely was out there. Blind and tone deaf not to
notice it. Enough already and high time to stop wingeing.

HAD you meticulously planned your retirement finances around the expected timing and amount of your state pension? If you're that sort of person, you'd have been awake to the changes.

Perhaps those who are saying they wish the WASPI movement would bow out or that they would rather give the money to low income youngsters receive the new state pension ?

Perhaps they would like to try living on the old one ?

Didn’t receive pension at 60 and because my birthday was one week before the new state pension was introduced I’m getting the old state pension

Every time the pension goes up the gap between what I get and what those on the new state pension get grows

Eazybee

Who are you to say that they 'aren't entitled'?
.

Mollygo.

Or won't
.

Why should all Waspi women be compensated when many admit they were informed or knew about the changes? I get the 'old' pension which is £3000 a year less than the new one for those born after 1953. As pensions go up by % each year the gap will get bigger every year. Should I demand I get the new pension or be compensated? Can't see that happening.

That's hard lines. There should have been a sliding scale so that for every year you lost you got £X on the pension. It's not just the pension itself that was lost, either. Or the extra years of working for those who couldn't take early retirement. It was the years of free travel and so on.

I think a lot of people who want women to be quiet about losing so much forget that 'equality' didn't happen on the day the new rules came into effect. Years of lower pay, fewer opportunities, lack of childcare etc had already worked to ensure that most women's pensions were well below those of their husbands, and the amount of notice given those who got it was not enough to make that up.

I was born in the early 1950’s and had to wait just 21 months for my state pension. However, I can not recall receiving any official communication regarding my pension being deferred. I too am on the old state pension and if I didn’t have a private pension, I would be struggling financially. We all paid in for our pensions, struggled during our younger years when interest rates were on 17% and we had no help from anywhere. I would like to know when “we had it good”.

I still find it difficult to believe that women were unaware of this change when it was so well advertised at the time and do not support the WASPI claims. I think we all owe it to ourselves to be aware of what is happening in the world and in particular in our own environment. If we choose not to read a newspaper or listen to the news or whatever then we only have ourselves to blame.

I find comments such as the young male in the Times, totally disrespectful. My husband worked for 50 years with no work pension. I don't call that 'entitlement.' Whilst teaching I looked after two lots of elderly parents and cut my days down to look after grandchildren. What a lot of money we have saved the government and our children. We have paid in over the years and have earned our state pension. No such thing as working from home in those days. We worked very hard so I am not recognising these golden years the young gentlemean is talking about. And many pensioners are living on the breadline and should be supported not criticised .

Doodledog

Agreed, Molly. I think working age people are fed up with being the ones who have to subsidise everything. The government needs to wise up to that and somehow make it the case that people are always better off in work than not. If they don't, the populists will take advantage of public discontent, and heaven help us all.

Agreed Doodledog but it's not just working age people who are fed up off all income tax raised being used to pay benefits but those who had to continue working past their expected retirement age in order to keep the wolf from the door while paying even more tax and NI to support those who can't or won't work.

Plunger

Why should all Waspi women be compensated when many admit they were informed or knew about the changes? I get the 'old' pension which is £3000 a year less than the new one for those born after 1953. As pensions go up by % each year the gap will get bigger every year. Should I demand I get the new pension or be compensated? Can't see that happening.

Knowing about the changes doesn't make them right, though.

How old were you when you first got your pension, Plunger? If you got it at 60, there is nothing to be compensated for. That age was what you expected, and you will presumably have got free travel etc from 60 as well as your pension, as well as SERPS if you paid into it.

Those on the NSP get a flat rate regardless of how much they paid in, and had to wait 6 or more years to get it, whilst continuing to pay tax and NI on any earnings before they retired. It may be a bit higher (although by no means everyone on the NSP gets the full rate) or it may be a lot lower, depending on circumstances.

Retired at 60. When the proposal that male and female pension age would be equalised I thought that to mean both would retire at age 65 and given females wanted equality this would go somewhere to help achive that. Even before 2007 discussions were
constant amongst colleagues about the changes to come. It seemed to be a topic amongst women even before 2007.