Dave Lee Travis

Barrow I remember travelling on a crowded tube train and experiencing another [male] commuter leaning against me [with an erection – he was leaning close enough for me to tell] every time the train stopped and started and putting his hand out to balance when it just, unfortunately, brushed against my breasts or thighs. Eventually, I lost my patience and announced as loudly as I could – and I CAN BE LOUD – "If you touch my breasts or private parts once more, I shall pull the communication cord, you sick pervert". Of course, all the other commuters looked up to see what was going on and the pervert in question slithered off the train at the next stop – to a slow hand clap. My face was a bit red, but I reckoned I had done the right thing.

If DLT was 'only groping' then he was a sex pest by any standards. Yet another illustration of why we as teenagers and young women needed liberation and feminism to free us from this bothersome behaviour and men's general ability to exercise power over us. I hope DLT and others like him have ceased this behaviour nowadays. Who would want a pest like that in their family?

Or want their DD or GD to have to put up with that kind of behaviour at work when.
Have you read the Liz Kershaw link I posted printmiss - really do you think that counts as a cuddle? (not saying this was DLT by the way and neither was she - I heard her on radio and it was part of an interview in which she talked about a general culture in R1 when she first started there)

I believe these woman think they are entitled to compensation - which is the way of the world now. It is dreadfully sad that someone's career may be ruined. How many people will think he is guilty like all the men mentioned in these cases as they have the attitude 'there's no smoke without fire'.

Sexual groping is wrong and always has been but there was a period when it was accepted as being only a trivial event and would not be taken seriously if you complained. That again may not have been right but it was so.

I was in my 20s and 30s in that period and, while it didnt happen often, groping was something I just dealt with. I certainly wouldnt consider now listing all the men who at some time or another groped me and go to the police and making a formal complaint, but then nobody famous ever groped me. If any of them were to repeat their actions now, I certainly would because attitudes have changed and the perpetrator would know full well that what they were doing was criminal and prosecutable.

The men I worked with that I really have it in for are not those who groped me but those who didnt treat me with professional respect. I was a manager in a big, predominantly, engineering company and at various times fellow managers asked me to do their photocopying and one asked me once if I took shorthand, we were away at a meeting and his secretary was not available. Now those I really would take to the police retrospectively.

Aren't we, as a society, in danger of developing a 'victim' mentality?
So many GNetters have made it clear that as young women they met and dealt with this issue, often quite forcibly. The present generation of young women seem to me even more capable of looking after themselves, and good for them. But if we're not careful we could encourage some less robust young people to think that their 'lives are ruined'.

I may not be putting this very well, and I'm NOT talking here about victims of child abuse; these are truly victims. But I think many posters will see where I'm coming from.

Yes I do nanadog The press encourage it because it makes a better story.
Also lawyers and dare I say it, therapists have an interest in this narrative.

A is bullied at work and her life is devastated. She's a wreck, needs endless therapy and can never work again.
or
B is bullied at work but gets over it, learns from it, comes out wiser and stronger

This is obviously an extreme caricature aimed at highlighting a possible general trend.
I have posted before how much more emphasis there is on coping, strength and bravery in Australia and New Zealand. Terrible floods or an earthquake - TV is showing interviews of people being brave, saying they will get over it and other people turning out with mops and rubber gloves to help with the cleanup.

But victim culture or not, doesn't make sexual bullying in the workplace anything other than totally unacceptable. And I don't think either of the female broadcasters who "came out" about groping in BBC are looking for compensation . I think they were just still peed off at having had to put up with it in order to succeed, without support from management.

What is worse? Being groped or being subject to verbal sexual innuendoes?

I think you are right Nanadog - it seems people are encouraged to think of themselves as victims. Some time ago I was diagnosed with depression and my Doctor suggested counselling. I went along and almost from the start the counsellor was saying things like "sexual abuse as a child may result in depression in later life". When I told her I had not been abused she went on to say that suppressing these things caused problems.

Maybe I just had a bad counsellor but I felt she was trying to turn me into a victim as that fitted in with her view of what causes depression.

The closest I came to abuse was a creepy uncle who, when the girls in the family began to develop liked to play "tickling games" during which his hands would wander. My Father had taught me some basic self defence and when he tried it on with me I brought my elbow back sharply and caught him in the face. He immediately let me go and I told him if he ever touched me again I would tell my Father (who without a doubt would have beaten him senseless). That did not make me a victim.

Good on you, Barrow.

Exactly what I was going to say too.

I am sure there is a lot of 'false memory' around. I agree therapists do seem to be bringing up abuse all the time. I think a high percentage of claimants say their depression is due to unaddressed sexual abuse. I suppose it is possible, but is it likely it was so common?