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Richard III

(45 Posts)
broomsticks Mon 04-Feb-13 19:32:39

We liked him round here. He was very popular. Liberal 9for then)and introduced the bail system.
I think he should be brought back to York Minster to be buried. Why would he want to hang around in Leicester. All that happened there was him getting chopped to bits and slung into a hole. wink

vampirequeen Tue 05-Feb-13 11:21:57

I like Richard III. He's a very misunderstood maligned king. His lands were in the north and York was his city. He should be buried in York or in Westminster Abbey to be near his wife, Anne Neville.

Leicester only want him because of the tourist money he'd bring in.

kittylester Tue 05-Feb-13 15:00:18

He has been here a while vampirequeen

broomsticks Tue 05-Feb-13 19:32:35

It'd be nice to have him in York. He's about the only powerful person who has ever done much for the north. Mind you it was a while back grin
There is actually a petition to have him buried in York Minster.

Deedaa Tue 05-Feb-13 20:34:42

I believe Westminster Abbey is out because there is no room left for burials, my vote would be for York. I hope it will occur to the organisers that it should be a Catholic service. It's been a great achievement though - I haven't felt such a buzz since Italy won the World Cup grin

broomsticks Wed 06-Feb-13 10:43:06

Westminster Abbey is full of Tudor isn't it? He probably wouldn't like it there grin.

JessM Wed 06-Feb-13 10:58:29

I agree. What did Leicester ever do for him. Except dig him up. grin
York gets my vote. He certainly would not like to be surrounded by those Tudor upstarts whose only claim to the throne was via an illegitimate line (if I've got that right - Mother of Henry 7 descendent of John of Gaunt and Katharine Swynford?)

Nelliemoser Wed 06-Feb-13 11:08:23

The city of Leicester was on the side of the Yorkists for years in the wars. That was very important in times like theirs.

Hunt Wed 06-Feb-13 11:23:04

If you are not sure about Richard 111, read Josephine Tey,s book The Daughter Of Time.

Nelliemoser Wed 06-Feb-13 11:29:00

broomsticks "chopped to bits and slung into a hole indeed" wink

He was darn lucky not to have his head on a spike on the gates of York like his Grandad. Those Lancastrians were ruthless!

( I am conveniently Ignoring Edward Vl pulling a few Lancastrians out of sanctuary at Tewksbury Abbey and butchering them some years before.)
Not good times those.
Richard was buried with due reverence if no ceremony by the Greyfriars. I suspect even Henry Vll would not want to inflame the populace by not allowing a decent burial to an annointed king.

I don't think there were too many Tudor upstarts hanging about Leicester at the time they would not have been welcome.
Thinking about it my Dad lived in "Tudor Road" in Leicester! They also have a King Richard's Road which leads out west towards Hinkley and Bosworth.

I have to admit to being from that City with half of my ancestors from the rural area west of Leicester. I just might be a wee bit biased. grin

POGS Wed 06-Feb-13 12:26:18

Wasn't there a clause in the initial paperwork that stipulated he would be buried in Leicester. Also isn't there a mandate by law that if a body is exumed it will be reburied at the nearest place of consecrated ground? I appreciate that there can always be extenuating circumstances and I accept this could well be one of them.

I really don't know. I just thought I heard those points mentioned by the news coverage I watched on the day.

kittylester Wed 06-Feb-13 12:37:04

I might be touch biased too, having lived here for over forty years!!

JessM Wed 06-Feb-13 16:33:39

What paperwork pogs - I presume you are not talking about original as in "time of death" ?

broomsticks Wed 06-Feb-13 16:47:21

I think at time of death there was documentary evidence that he had dedicated money or something to York Minster so that he could be buried there. He should be allowed his last wish - I mean it's his skeleton.

I've nothing against Leicester mind you. I grew up near there.

Nelliemoser Wed 06-Feb-13 17:32:04

In the interest of accuracy of my previous post about R3. It was Richard llls Father, Richard Duke of York who's head was stuck on Micklegate Bar in York. This error is probably the result of giving up history before O. levels. grin

How or why that just came into my mind when driving up the A50 two miles from home I have no idea. I cannot remember all sorts of other things I need to. confused

POGS Wed 06-Feb-13 17:43:47

Jess M

I was dreading that question, you are absolutely right. It reads like he might have left a will. grin

I meant the neccessary 'paperwork' that had to be completed to dig up the car park, grave digging etc. It was known that it was consecrated ground and the Friary was there. Probably still not very clear. blush

JessM Wed 06-Feb-13 18:48:47

Here are the historical novels I read and enjoyed recently all giving different angles on RIII:
They varied in how sympathetically they viewed him.
The Kingmakers Daughter by Phillipa Gregory - about Anne Neville
Gregory also wrote a novel much more sympathetic to Elizabeth Woodville - the White Queen
The Red Queen re Margaret Beaufort, mother of Henry Tudor.
A Dangerous Inheritance by Alison Weir.

broomsticks Thu 07-Feb-13 11:59:01

Which were sympathetic JessM?
I'm biased in his favour as he used to own the castle here. We've got his boar on our church. He was about the last person to do much for the place grin

JessM Thu 07-Feb-13 12:42:55

Kingmakers daughter I think.

Hunt Thu 07-Feb-13 15:41:45

Can't beat 'Daughter of Time' IMHO

Deedaa Thu 07-Feb-13 22:53:23

The Daughter of Time is very good and makes some points that are still worth thinking about. For instance, why did Richard invite Elizabeth Woodville for Xmas but Henry VII locked her up in a convent? Josephine Tey would have to rethink a few things today. She was shocked at the idea of Richard accusing his mother of adultery, but now it seems likely to have been true. It's such a good read though and turns so many ideas upside down.

broomsticks Fri 08-Feb-13 10:10:57

History is always written from someone or other's slant, I suppose. Obviously the Tudor had to justify grabbing the throne by blackening Richard's name.
I think some of the other kings who were deposed are unaccounted for (corpse wise). Isn't Richard II missing as well.
No member of the royal family seem keen to christen their sons Richard wink
Perhaps that will change now.

absent Fri 08-Feb-13 10:20:47

broomsticks I think Henry V (son of the chap who deposed and murdered Richard II) moved his corpse from where it was buried at Kings Langley to Westminster Abbey.

annodomini Fri 08-Feb-13 11:08:53

The present Duke of Gloucester is Richard. Don't know if there are any more recent ones.

mischief Fri 08-Feb-13 17:51:48

I think that re-interring Richard III in Leicester would be the final humiliation for him. After all wasn't he paraded through the town, naked, on a horse and even stabbed in the bum before being buried. Now Leicester proposes to make a lot of money out of him too.

Richard III wanted to be buried in York, his son is buried in Sherrif Hutton near York and he was brought up at Middleham Castle. We should respect his wishes and bring him home. Yorkshire loved him.

The paperwork given to the University of Leicester should have had a clause in it to say that if the skeleton turned out to be Richard III the government (or maybe the Queen) would make the decision about where he was re-buried. Because this clause was not in the document, I think the government were convinced it couldn't possible be Richard III. How wrong they were. Someone slipped up there.

As a second choice for burial I think Westminster should be the place. But Leicester.......?