Is 'yid' a term of abuse?

I agree.

I agree, Gn, it's a lot like the one we had the other day.

I do agree it is but Tottenham fans have been calling them selves The Yids for as long as I can remember. Its going to prove hard to get them to stop something they see as part of the whole 'match' thing even though most Tottenham fans aren't even Jewish anymore its just a historical thing that's ingrained in the fans.

I'm sorry I meant to delete the word 'just' before posting but too late now..

I think it is a horrible word. My best friend is Jewish, and although I take the mickey out of her for some Jewish things, I would never dream of using that word.

I agree. Didn't know about Tottenham, but it doesn't make any difference!

I listened to a discussion about 'Yid Army' on the radio yesterday. A woman defending the chant says it has long been a powerful way for Jewish Spurs fans to shout out their collective support for the team and each other, from a time after the war when Jews needed that reassurance that they belonged. She didn't accept that it was racist, or was being used by others as permission to shout racist abuse.

However, she did acknowledge that it needed further discussion, and the supporters' club are listening to the opposing view, but she wasn't confident that the 'Yid Army' chant would be easy to stop after all these years.

I get the impression that, if those football fans stopped to listen and think about it, they'd realise that the racist chants being shouted at the same time were not friendly and supportive, but are being drowned out by their 'inoffensive' chants.

My son has a Manchester United season ticket. He has talked about the horrendous verbal and racist abuse that is shouted at most matches. He won't take his 13 year old son to those matches, but they watch Sunday League instead.

A very pertinent segue from the discussion on the other thread re the P word isn't it? LBC had a phone in discussion and from Jewish callers there, the consensus was it was OK. I understand Spurs fans adopted the term themselves as a defence against racist chants from other clubs.

As mentioned on the other thread, if one self describes, is it racist?

when I've been to one football match and understand your son's comment. My OH is American and is amazed at the difference in sport here and in the US. There it is a family thing. We were on a train recently with a group of Millwall fans and he was open mouthed. Sort of shaming.

If it isn't being used in a racist way, it isn't racist. If Jewish people use it themselves, it isn't racist.

If I, or anyone else, uses it is a racist way, it is racist. In my case, it would be because I've never heard the term "Yid" to mean Jew before. Actually, the Jewishness of Jewish people I've known has been largely irrelevant so not mentioned.

I had a very good Ecuadorean friend in Oxford who was the offspring of a German Jew (father) and a Spanish Catholic, both, obviously, immigrants to Ecuador. He did not look like a typical South American so I asked him about his forebears. He told me. I said "Oh" in the sense of that would explain the blondish colouring (the Germanic bit).

He said, amazed, "Is that all?

Me: "Er... yes. Is there something else I should say?"

Him: "No but usually people say something about my being part Jewish."

Me: "Really? Why?"

At that point he gave me a bear hug so I couldn't say anything else!!

In short, it's racist if it is used insultingly, not when it isn't. It sounds as if the Tottenham fans are not using it insultingly.

My question did not relate solely to football supporters.
I am surprised you have not heard the word 'yid' before, I thought it was quite common.

Obviously not where I've been. I've heard of the language Yiddish of course.

Same as Bags.

It's the connotations, and the behaviour, that go with these words that make them what they are. We happily call ourselves 'Brits' and some Pakistanis call themselves "Pakistan". In themselves the words are innocent enough. Butt it's too late to change the big picture. So, the words are obviously best avoided.

I meant "Pakis" there. #kindlefire

Never heard 'yid' used when speaking of a person or race, in fact never heard the word, full stop.

How can they solve this one, supporters use the word in a form of friendship, others as abuse

You have a PC Kindlefire J0

Alright!

It's from the Yiddish language spoken by many European Jews presumably so not originally a racist term, but as Bags said it's the intent behind the word.

I am not Jewish so I find it a bit difficult to answer this one.

Like a lot of us with a diverse circle of friends and acquaintances I do know those of the Jewish faith, also Pakistani, Indian, Italian etc. That comes with the territory when you live in a multi cultural part of the country.

I have spoken about the word Yid before during a discussion I was having with a group of friends about the use of words such as Yid, Paki, Chinky. We all agreed that it is the way in which the words were used as being the issue, not the words themselves. In fact I distinctly remember my Jewish friends being the least offended as they happily said they were 'proud to be Yiddish' and the word Yid is used within the Jewish community.

Is it not therefore the case if the Tottenham Fans have no issue chanting the word about themselves, in fact feel rather proud about their religion, why should we declare it to be an offensive term? If the word was used in say an argument and somebody said "You Yiddish git" Then it is being used by the aggressor in a way to try and belittle the other person, but even then is it really offensive.

It is quite normal in our language to shorten words e.g umbrella becomes brolly, horse is a nag, policeman a bobby. Have we created a disproportionate view of the spoken word and created a problem that was never intended to be neither racial nor aggressive and words that are used by and within the Jewish, Pakistani communities by their own people.

It's like being of Yiddish, Pakistani, Chinese origin is somehow not acceptable or seen to be some sort of class underdog and that thought is obviously utter rubbish but I do worry the continued view that calling somebody any of those names is a derogatory term it has done some damage to the communities it is trying to protect.

In other words it's not the word that is the problem purely the way it is used. It would appear to me to be the FA that has started the ball rolling, no pun intended, on this one and maybe they should have spoken to Tottenham Football Club and it's fans first. If they declared they do feel that the word yid is offensive then I would whole heartedly accept that is what it is.

How many people on here have read the article? I have, before I came on here today, and I agree with David Baddiel, it is offensive and should be stopped.
"Yid" is usually meant offensively. Yiddisher is not. According to Baddiel, only about 5% of the fans at a home game are Jewish now.

I have known this term for a long time, and while I can remember some sentimental song about My Yiddisher Momma'. I have otherwise only ever heard it used as a pejorative.

yid
(yid),
n.
usage: This term is a slur and should be avoided. It is used with disparaging intent and is perceived as highly insulting. However, the Yiddish word from which the English word derives is not derogatory.
—n.
Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive. (a contemptuous term used to refer to a Jew.)

[1885–90; < Yiddish yid Jew; compare Middle High German jude, jüde]

Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved

There was a discussion about this on Radio 2 today and whilst the Spurs fans chant that they are the "Yid Army" some opposing fans chant something along the lines that "the Yid Army is on its way to Auschwitz Sieg Hiel" (when I heard this I felt physically sick)

I understand the word "Yid" was also used as an insult by the Nazis.

With those sort of conations I think it should be classed as a racist word.

Whether Jews refer to themselves in that way is entirely up to them - the same way black people will refer to each other using the N word.