Mark Duggan

"probably the result of brutality in the cells"

Yes, there's a lot of that. I know someone who was punched in the throat on Christmas Day and then took a full mouth full of phlegm to the eye.

She's a police officer though, so that's okay. Just a normal day for the front line. Comfort and joy?

Maggie

My hubby was a policeman and I like your post very much.

I think you have no understanding of the adrenaline rush, the split second decision you have to make under certain circumstances if you have never been placed in such a scenario.

Our police are not trigger happy but they put their life on the line and believe you me there is always the worry that if you make a mistake you are going to loose your job, pension and all the worries that would bring to you and your family. I don't know why men and women still volunteer to be a firearms bobby.

The case went to court, a jury made a decision. I can only imagine the fear the jury were under given the behaviour of the public gallery and I wouldn't mind betting they gave very serious consideration before they made their decision. I certainly would not have wanted to serve on that jury!!

Jess "American cop etc shows tend to create a very false view of shooting jings."

Vaguely insulting perhaps?

Didn't say it was still happening mamie but you can't believe that it never has over the timescale I mentioned? My point is that trust is not high. The fact that I believe it has happened more than once in the last 40 years is indicative of that.

POGS Absolutely!!!! I am sure there are some less than reliable policeman around as in any job, but it seems they can't win whatever they do . We don't know all the background to most of their investigations. I have the utmost sympathy for the jury too. BTW Brendawyms, yes I think you are missing something : surely there is no comparison between this case and the marine killing the Iraqui man.

JessM, assuming by mamie it is me you are talking to, I would never be so naive to think that "it never has over the timescale you mentioned" (not that you actually do mention one).

Yes, some deaths in custody "over the years" will undoubtedly have been down to police neglect or unnecessary force. This is not what you said though, is it?

Your statement was:
There have also been many "deaths in custody" over the years that were probably the result of brutality in the cells.

This is the sort of sweeping generalisation that is used as yet another stick to bash the police with, and gives justification to the Cregans and Moats of this world and their many followers and apologists.

Like POGS, I wonder anyone signs up, but I'm very thankful that they do.

I think the shooting was justified. He was certainly carrying a gun, but threw it out of the car window, but the police weren't to know that. Imagine if Duggan has started firing at the police and bystanders were killed. The police would be blamed for NOT firing at him. He was a gun carrying drug dealer!!

They can't win. They do a brilliant job for which we should be grateful. Yes - there are probably some 'bad apples' but that applies to any job, profession, whatever.

He was not dragged into crime. He was sent to live with the wife of a drug baron in Manchester ,his mothers sister I believe. Various members of that family were stabbed or murdered I forget which. He grew up in a culture of crime being normal. The police have no hope against these people.

Is that not being dragged into crime then?

I know, he was a man by the time this happened and he made his own choices. But some people do have a better chance in life than others.

Stansgran - I know the Manchester family well. They were neighbours for a while, it was a complete nightmare, aggressive, drug dealing, criminal gang of crooks. Huge extended family, and whilst I acknowledge all the children, including the ones currently in their 40's and in HMP had a very tough childhood, they also made choices. So many agencies and ordinary people have tried to help them, but they enjoy their notoriety I believe. They also relish the power it gives them over other people. His uncle was one of those arrested during the Manchester riots. He had a gang of young lads out stealing from shops and was caught on CTV taking goods from them, and putting stuff in the back of his car. His mother cannot have failed to know exactly what she was exposing her son to, i.e. drug dealing, crime, violence, guns etc.
I agree Jing, that some of us have a better chance in life than others, but because of the nature of my work, and in my personal life, I know many people who had very tough childhoods, but did not choose to continue the criminal and abusive lifestyle in which they grew up.

Why did he have a gun in the first place, I doubt if it was a fashion accessory ?????

I read somewhere that the Duggan family has been invited by the Coroner to 'help shape police firearms procedures'.

I'm very surprised at that, if it's true.

Yes well after her death i heard that Amy Winehouse's dad was being consulted about alcohol abuse. Maybe these things in the press are code for "we've invited them to a meeting"

Set a thief to catch a thief?