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Do we expect too much as a right in Great Britain?

(238 Posts)
rosequartz Fri 18-Apr-14 20:18:57

Relatives visiting from Australia are astonished at how much is provided by the State for the population of Great Britain.

In Wales we all receive free prescriptions (although our NHS in Wales apparently is in a bad state). Senior citizens are eligible to free prescriptions everywhere else, whatever their income. Now free school meals are proposed for all primary school children, and in some areas free breakfast clubs are provided for school children. There are many other benefits available which would astonish citizens of many other countries.

Does this make us a dependent society expecting more and more, or should those who can afford it be expected to pay for these services as is the norm in other countries, bearing in mind that our tax rate is lower than many other countries?

Should we start to become less dependent on the State and more self-reliant, at the same time as caring for those in need?

FlicketyB Tue 22-Apr-14 19:08:23

The Conservatives under Mrs T may have built the houses but they were nearly all houses for sale. During her reign the number of council /housing association/social/affordable housing built, call it what you will, was abysmally low. To the haves it was given, to the have-nots it was taken away.

Ariadne Tue 22-Apr-14 19:35:27

If people are debating something, they are not necessarily "taking the moral high ground" if they choose to disagree with you, are they? It is an accusation that you once levelled at me, ninny and I do think it is unsubstantiated.

annodomini Tue 22-Apr-14 19:44:13

A debate is not a dispute.

Eloethan Tue 22-Apr-14 20:05:02

ayse I agree with everything you say and, in particular, the part about the madness of paying housing benefit to landlords instead of the government building social housing that is of decent quality and has affordable rents.

Ana Tue 22-Apr-14 20:47:02

Couldn't access your link I'm afraid, rosequartz - 'Page not found'.

rosequartz Tue 22-Apr-14 21:17:39

Oh, will have another look.

rosequartz Tue 22-Apr-14 21:20:04

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/council_house_building_margaret_thatcher_labour_government-29270

Not saying I agree or disagree with the above, just a link I found which I thought was relevant.

Ana Tue 22-Apr-14 21:24:31

Thanks. At least that's a rather more balanced view.

rosequartz Tue 22-Apr-14 21:24:32

Although this report does not say that Margaret Thatcher's government built more properties for sale.
Is it not also a fact that the Labour Government closed more pits than were closed under Mrs Thatcher's government?

Unless someone knows better, this is what I mean by rose-tinted spectacles.

Ana Tue 22-Apr-14 21:25:52

Or a jaundiced view, whichever you prefer! hmm

rosequartz Tue 22-Apr-14 21:29:20

smile

I will put my wooden spoon back in the rack and go to catch up on some tv programmes.

W1A here I come.

durhamjen Tue 22-Apr-14 22:37:13

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/council_house_building_margaret_thatcher_labour_government-29270
Your link did not work for me, rose. Hope this one does.

Ana Tue 22-Apr-14 22:40:26

rose re-posted her link at 21.20 durhamjen.

durhamjen Tue 22-Apr-14 22:46:07

Sorry, did not notice that.
Nobody has mentioned that this government has now said that builders can build as many houses as they want without any of them being affordable, or have I missed that as well?
www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/22/garden-cities-affordable-homes-tcpa-ebbsfleet-howard-letchworth
New planning rules.

durhamjen Tue 22-Apr-14 23:12:52

Rose, it depends on who you read about pit closures.

www.leftfootforward.org/2013/04/tory-spin-on-coal-masks-fact-that-80-per-cent-of-coal-jobs-were-lost-under-thatcher/

The problem, as I said earlier, was the fact that the miners could not move because nobody wanted to live in a pit village with no work, so the miners could not sell their houses after Thatcher closed the pits.
When Wilson closed pits, there were jobs elsewhere. The miners had rented the pit houses so could stop renting in one pit village and move to another pit village where there was work.
I know this because my father-in-law was a foreman repairing pit houses. Once most of them had been sold in Northumberland, he was made redundant. He wasn't responsible for just one village; it was the whole of Northumberland from Ashington up to Wooler, and across to the National park. He was in charge of a lot of men, who also lost their jobs.

POGS Tue 22-Apr-14 23:47:32

Am I wrong in saying the fact remains that Wilson closed a reported 290 pits and Thatcher 160.

It was a time when a lot of men lost their jobs because of the pit strikes, they too lost their homes. The pit strikes caused nationwide problems which touched the lives of families not in the coal industry. They did not have a choice of whether or not to go on strike, their factories and employers had to make that decision for them. It was a terrible time for everybody but it hardly get's a mention.

durhamjen Wed 23-Apr-14 00:23:35

www.healeyhero.co.uk/rescue/individual/Bob_Bradley/PM-Closures.html

Haven't added them all up, POGS. I'm sure you will be able to.

Thatcher did it on purpose, vindictively to get rid of the NUM. She said so. I do not think that was the reason behind Wilson closing pits. It was because the pits ran out of coal. When we moved back up north, there was only one pit in Northumberland, and that was close soon after, because it was uneconomical.
I am not saying that it was only miners who lost their jobs. Miners lost their jobs because of Thatcher's vindictiveness. If Thatcher had not set out to destroy the NUM, those other jobs might not have been lost.

ninny Wed 23-Apr-14 09:18:33

durhamjen i do not need a history lesson, don't be so pedantic.

janeainsworth Wed 23-Apr-14 09:30:38

Shut up, ninny.
Some of us find jen's posts informative.

jinglbellsfrocks Wed 23-Apr-14 09:57:52

Don't say "shut up" to ninny! shock

mcem Wed 23-Apr-14 11:02:11

Wonder why ninny took durhamjen's post personally. I agree with janea that her post is helpful and informative and adds to the discussion. I assumed that it was part of that general discussion and not a history lesson directed specifically at ninny. Why so touchy?

POGS Wed 23-Apr-14 11:15:13

I don't need to add up pit closures. The internet is quite sufficient information to go by.

MiceElf Wed 23-Apr-14 11:59:39

DurhamJen's posts are always a useful source of information. And, although I am an historian, I don't regard being pointed in the direction of unbiased information as a 'history lesson'. Neither is it 'pedantic'. It does, however, astonish me that anyone would find a link to an informative source as being personally directed.

Aka Wed 23-Apr-14 12:03:59

I think there are some poster mcem who come across as wanting to lecture others and it's annoying when, as in ninny's case, she is already familiar with the subject matter.

If it's new information to a reader then of course it's more interesting to them.

A difficult one I know as I'm sure most people don't mean to offend, unlike a remark such as 'shut up' for which there is little justification (IMO)

janeainsworth Wed 23-Apr-14 12:27:48

Oh dear - I thought that was quite mild, Aka.