Hunting

Greyhound racing has had quite a lot of opposition and several stadia - including the one near me - have closed.

I think that it's the riding that people find enjoyable about "The Hunt", not the killing of the fox. I honestly don't think people take pleasure in that. I think they probably see fox hunting as a necessary evil but, since it has to be done, they might as well have a good charge around on horseback because they love doing that.

I am not defending fox hunting. Whether the killing of foxes is necessary is debatable. And, yes, hounds tearing a fox apart, if that's what happens, is certainly cruel, but so are lots of other things in nature, like lions tearing impala or zebra apart.

I've never lived in a place where fox hunting is 'obtrusive' or even in the least bit visible at all. I've only ever seen pictures.

Anyway, as I said, I very much doubt if it's the killing of the fox that people 'enjoy'. I think they enjoy the chase.

Fishing was the target of some protestors, but unlike hunting the anglers are spread far and wide, so not so news worthy. Plus there is a estimated 3 million anglers in the UK, which gives a problem to any legislation to ban it. It is also a big industry employing thousands of people.

Again, commercial concerns, logistics and of course an unpopular cause overriding animal cruelty!!! Well, no surprise there!!!!

I think you will find nighlynellie that there are protests against all forms of animal cruelty, if you look for them. As Anniebach has pointed out, there are protests outside abbatoirs, at live export points, outside laboratories where animal experiments take place.

The fact is, hunting with dogs is illegal so I see no problem with protests against illegal activities, do you?

Nice point, Nightowl.

I don't think anyone is defending or ignoring all the dreadful forms of cruelty to animals that exist - but this thread is specifically about hunting, which is illegal.

Cont'd: which is what Nightowl was saying. And hunting has the added dimension of people actually enjoying it, making a party of it, revelling in it. Revolting. "The unspeakable chasing the uneatable"

In this area we have (not me) drag hunted for decades, long before the ban with no problems at all, but now of course we are targeted along with the rest to the extent of a police helicopter being sent. A bystander was accosted, her only crime was that she had her elderly Bassett hound with her on a lead. These morons thought she and it were part of the drag and were threatening to spray it with anniseed!! FGS! I don't think a Bassett would get far on a drag hunt!! You'd think these clever folk could at least work that out!

Oh, and incidentally for the record, drag hunting is not illegal! But try telling that to the ' flying pickets!'

nigglynellie , protesting against fox hunting can and is often done in market squares where the hunt meet for their drinks before setting off, so you have a large number of horses, riders , hunt supporters and hounds, when one sees this one can safely assume they are going to hunt a fox?

A puppy farm, first find one, then prove there is ill trestment of animals on the premises , prove how many litters that farmer has sold, if you can do this then prove the dog didn't get to the bitch without the knowledge of the breeder, don't forget you are very likely to be arrested for trespassing and charged with several criminal offences , I have filmed bitches in a pitiful state and had the camera confiscated by the police

As for animal testing labs, have you not read of police infiltrating the protest groups?

Ask the RSPCA what it costs to bring charges against one breeder, and don't think the police are there to support the protestors please

To accuse me and many others of being selective in what and where we protest is so wrong, I protested against badger culling in England and Wales, we won in Wales we failed in England. Now in England idiots who couldn't shoot an elephant are paid to shoot badgers .

I am involved with trying to change the law to protect reptiles and I am a little fearful of reptiles ! , save the snake does not good front page coverage make. My younger daughter has her own animal sanctuary, she is now involved with cruelty to goats , something I knew little about, my elder daughter runs a rehoming charity for unwanted dogs. Not everyone can tramp fields but everyone can do something

And as for the defence of fox hunting - the fox doesn't kill for food but for fun, same applies to the hunt

Foxes do kill for food, primarily.

I do not accept that fox hunters kill for fun. I think they ride for fun and the fox-killing, if there is any, they regard as justifiable (because some people see foxes as pests, like rats) 'collateral damage'.

If mice invade my home, I set humane traps (ones that kill them instantly) for them because they are a nuisance in my house. I do not do this for fun. I do it because I regard mice in my house as pests. If mice stay outside I leave them alone. There are, in fact, many mouse and bank vole holes in our garden.

Foxes do kill for fun in some circumstances. When, for example, they get into a chicken run, they act like many dogs will and pounce on any fleeing chicken and kill them. So there will be a scene of carnage in the hen hoise with dead chickens and feathers everywhere.

Then they will gather up just one or two of their kills and take them home.

It used to be the tradition that you got 'bloodied' at your first kill when fox hunting. The Huntsmsn would drag the hounds off, and using the dead foxes bloodied paw, put an imprint onto your cheek or fore head. This was a sort of initiation rite to show you'd been in at the kill.

I don't agree that foxes do that for 'fun'. They are acting on instinct and their predator blood is up. They have the killer instinct hard-wired into their psyche because they have to kill to eat. They have evolved as carnivores, like lots of other animals.

If a fox who has killed a coopful of chickens is not disturbed it will keep coming back for more of the corpses which it will then hide as food stashes. This has been shown on wildlife programmes.

A fox killed all our chickens. We only found one and we suspect that was because it was too big to be pulled through the fence. The fox had taken away all the others.

A large part of a fox's diet is, in fact, earthworms. Let's hear it for earthworms, folks! .... Thought not.

Never assume anything, I was told, anniebach
Because the hunt gathered for drinks in a market square prior to setting off does not mean they would be hunting foxes; they could have been drag hunting.

Is it OK to use violence another human being because you disagree with their views and without bothering to find out the true facts? - hidden behind a balaclava?

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/554793/huntsman-hunt-brutal-attack
Note, this was a drag hunt

By the way, keep up the good work re puppy farms which are disgusting.

Correction: against another human being

Nature is capable of self-control- but conditions around towns these days are not natural at all- that is the problem. Studies done by Bristol University last 3o years, show clearly that in natural conditions, foxes regulate their numbers. When food is scarce, only the strongest vixens breed and have a very small litter- when food is plentyful, all vixens breed- and have larger litters.

The best way to control town foxes populations if to reduce the food available! People must stop artificially feeding foxes- as at the end of the day, it is the fox that will suffer if they become too many. And there should be much better control of food litter all over the place!

If foxes need to be controlled in the countryside, they should be cleanly shot by trained and controlled marksmen- not chased to death.

Many people have no idea of what goes behind the beautiful site of hunters riding out there - how the dogs are trained to kill- and killed and fed to other dogs and they do not come up to scratch. And one of the worst aspect if cubbing- how many people have witnessed what goes on in cubbing season?!? It is just disgusting and so cruel.

Having worked with police wildlife for 30+ years- I am also very aware that few people realise how closely the world of the terrier men that work for the hunt is linked to badger baiting, dog and cock fighting. The Hunts know this of course, but close a blind eye as they need the terrier men.

Gosh! Your fox must have had a big mouth to carry all those chickens Bags

'If a fox gets into a small run or chicken house and there are a number of birds in there, they can get into a killing ‘frenzy' and will kill 30 or more birds, usually taking only one bird with them. Typically, they will bite the heads off the birds. Sometimes, they will bury the bodies if there is enough loose soil.'

Taken from The Poultry Keeper

Are we not, by nature hunter gatherers? I realise that a lot of us would never kill another creature [although people such as myself eat meat that has been 'humanely' [I use that word lightly] slaughtered]? But is it right to vilify those of our race that still do have an instinct to hunt? Chimpanzees do it [although it is to obtain protein]. We would not have evolved in the way we have had we not been hunter gatherers which has led to us having this conversation about ourselves. We could ban everything that's cruel but would that leave us in a Utopian world where animals hardly exist [eg no greyhound racing equates to no greyhounds; if we were all vegans there would be no need for cattle, and any wild ones would probably have to be exterminated because they would then compete with us for land in which to grow crops]. The reason most of us don't hunt is that we can go to a supermarket and buy meat that has been killed for us.

But Tegan foxes are not hunted as a food source...what was it Oscar Wilde called hunting?? "The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable" or something like that.

Just as a balance to accusations of violence at hunt protests

www.huntsabs.org.uk/index.php/news/press-releases/556-blackmore-sparkford-vale-huntsman-deliberately-rides-over-saboteur-with-his-horse

If you read down it says that two hunt saboteurs have been killed during protests in the past. I think there are faults on both sides, but faced with a crowd of people on horses carrying whips I think I would definitely feel on the side of the disadvantaged.

Well that says it all Nightowl ...truly 'the unspeakable'

Our pet chickens were killed by a vixen one night. She killed all 6 of them, and buried them carefully along the hedge- so she could come and get them later to feed her cubs. We were all very upset, including our teenage daughters who had helped me get those poor ex battery chickens back into beautiful feathered coat and a great life. They had names and were totally tame, and would jump on our lap to be tickeld.

Did any of us blame the fox? Not at all- the vixen did what came naturally- kill to feed her cubs. As in most cases of foxes killing chickens- it was entirely our fault- poor husbandry. We were out for a meal and the daughter on chicken duty that night forgot to close the hen house. We never blamed here either of course (she blamed herself enough- poor thing).