Hunting

The trouble with shooting is it has to be a clean shot. On three occasions we found horribly distressed foxes that had been shot but not killed, and my soft-hearted DH had to shoot them, very upsetting.

I'm not sure that that's a better fate than hunting when at least the fox (if they find one, it isn't guaranteed) is killed pretty quickly.

I'm not a hunt supporter but I can see both sides of the debate.
As I said, I am ambivalent.

By the way mrsmopp we've always had urban foxes. 40+ years ago as a student nurse in Tooting there were umpteen foxes living under the wards (as an old fever hospital many of the wards at St.George's were raised up on pillars)

loopylou - I share your ambivalence. I'm not pro hunting (on horses with dogs, that is) but I'm not sure it's the work of the devil either. As you say, there is no guarantee the hunt will find a fox. I've watched on more than one occasion as the cunning fox slinks off in one direction, whilst the not very bright pack of dogs races off in another. I don't like animals to suffer and i'm sure foxes suffer great fear when being pursued but death is inevitable, unlike with shooting. I too see both sides of the debate - but I don't like the idea of shooting deer/pheasants for fun so I'm a bit rocky on this one

I'm the same re: any hunting too
Breeding pheasants so that they're used to humans and then shooting them? Deer I can accept if it's to control numbers or I'll ones (which I believe it generally is)

I was just wondering if anyone on here has given any thought to the devastation caused to farmers by bovine TB? I have seen Farmers reduced to tears at the sight of cattle, some only a few weeks old or younger, pregnant cows, 'good old girls' who have given so much during their lives, rare breeds, Maiden girls, and a host more. It is horrible, and for me, is the other side of the culling coin. I don't know what the answer is, short of factory farming cattle!! But I think these creatures are deserving of our pity too!

bTB is a devastating disease for all concerned but badger culling will not give the farmers what they want i.e. disease free cattle. Only the development of a vaccine will do that.

nigglynellie- really not a good idea to mix the two here. Badger culling has nothing to do with hunting per se- so perhaps best to start another thread on this one.

The issue of TB, wild animals and cattle is a hugely complex one, with so many different aspects (deer and other animals carry tb btw, not just badgers).

It has already been mentioned on his thread, badger culling successfully aborted in Wales I believe, so I was under the impression that this subject was also up for discussion along with fishing and shooting, also mentioned.

I'm not sure about the hunting ban, as this thread has shown there are so many sides to the fox problem. (Not to mention the deer and sanglier that are hunted in France, but won't go into that.)
One of my uncles, and then his son, my cousin, were MOFs in the Borders. I don't know how they cope now, but I do know my cousin still goes out regularly and enjoys the ride over the moors etc. My uncle died 2 years ago aged 99! Sometimes they come back with a fox and sometimes not.
They're sheep farmers, and the fox is an enemy at all times especially at lambing times. It's a hard life, though easier now with the 4 by 4s.
When I was a teenager we used to stay on the farm with them often and I admired their way of life.

So I tend to be defensive of the hunt, but not killing for pleasure.

ps Most of the hunt members are shepherds, not hoi poloi.

I agree Tricia, my experience is that most hunt members are not hoi poloi (what an expression) but are farmers, farmers daughter's, ordinary folk who love their horse/pony and enjoy a challenging ride.
My husband is absolutely anti hunting, sees it as some kind of class war but then, he grew up in London rather than the countryside.

I thought hoi polloi were the masses. So farmers, shepherds and ordinary folk would be hoi polloi.

Yes, the hot polloi, common people!
Although hunting on horseback with dogs is banned, hunting is still popular in the countryside.Just no dogs.Which is fine, the hunters can enjoy a good old chase and jumping over hedges etc and foxes don't get killed.Most hunts have a mixture of people/classes in them.

You are jesting, aren't you?!?

ok I thought hoi poloi meant "posh" people, or those who aspire to be posh.
My cousin isn't a landowner, he's a tenant farmer for the Duke of Northumberland.

rose have you seen a hunt recently?

Of course they have dogs. It's drag hunting now.

And foxes still get killed all the time...

The law allows for an 'exception' - for the dogs to flush the fox to a bird of prey?!?!? so the Hunts just take a bird of prey with a handler- and if the police arrives, or saboteurs with camera- the Hunt just says it was an accident- Simple. Very little has changed in reality on the ground.