European Union in or out

Thanks WW - that's just the kind of information we need.

I read your post as attacking both those signing petitions and Jen, Anya. With your past attacks that does not seem an unreasonable way to read it. Your subsequent post would encourage me to read a similar post that way in future too.

Anya they don't have to earn £35k to work here. The government has set a time limit for visas those who earn under £35k - 5 years. Previously workers under the limit could be given "indefinite leave to remain". The position of nurses is under discussion.

A language test - well it would be somewhat discriminatory to make the sweeping assumption that if you come from Australia your English is up to standard but if you come from, say, Nigeria, it is not.
Really not following the logic of this line of thinking. Other than "Its not fair".
If we left the EU and stopped free movement of Labour (assuming we could negotiate a deal with the EU that excluded this - unlike other European nations like Norway) then UK industry would have even more problems filling skills gaps than it is currently having. It is currently much more complicated and time consuming recruiting from outside the EU, making it quite a challenge (more or less impossible) for smaller businesses (the ones that don't have HR departments). I speak as one who has worked in this field. If companies had to go through all this to recruit from EU as well, it in turn slow down the growth of the smaller-business sector and hence the whole economy. (and most UK jobs are in smaller businesses not big corporates)

Quite 8Whitewave* when Exiters talk about cutting regulations they are rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of cutting regulations on drinking water quality, river and sea water quality, air pollution, food safety and so on.

I can't be held responsible for people's inability read a post in a neutral light GG

Thank you Jess for an interesting explanation and summing up.

The EU sensibly wants to put higher tariffs on the poor quality steel being dumped on its shores from China. Our steel industry is naturally backing the plan, as it will contribute to saving a vital industry and thousands of jobs.

The US has seen the light and is imposing a 500% tariff on Chinese steel.

The U.K. Is blocking the EUs plan from going ahead. This of course from a narrow minded Laissez faire government.
I thought the Brexiters argument is that we have no control over EU policy. This puts paid to that argument!

Osborne has been desperately wooing the Chinese. We need look no further than the State Visit.

Even the Queen is underwhelmed by the Chinese.

Osborne consistently makes poor judgement calls. It would help if he could get to grips with the economy - pretty fundamental in a chancellor I would have thought. He has yet to met a single target.

What do BREXITers really want? Unlimited immigration from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Somalia...? The same quotas to apply to ALL foreign citizens? In which case, there will still be spouses denied visas. I thought the idea was reduce overall immigration, so leaving the EU won't help non-EU potential immigrants. Since when have BREXITers been concerned about potential immigrants?

PS. At least it would solve the problem in Calais, because we could just let them all into the UK.

Oh dear my post has been deleted

Historic references me thinks....

Can't see why it was deleted, as the post it was responding to was much more personal!

Ah! But I CBA'd to report it Ana

And it does me good to get a post deleted now and again - it shows someone actually reads them and takes offence. A bit like me own personal ASBO

Being out at the time ( I do sometimes go out) I missed your deleted post Anya
Hope it was a corker,

Can gransnet set up a poll difficult to judge the overall consensus

daphnedill Brexiters want a fair immigration system. Fair to us, and fair to educated hard working people who want to come and work in our country.

daphnedill - from the Guardian. 'There are many good reasons for the UK to leave the EU. But exiting now would allow Johnson and Gove to turn Britain into a neoliberal fantasy island.'

Please tell me if you know any different, but last time I looked, Johnson and Gove weren't Prime Ministers or leaders of parties, nor will they be all of a sudden if we leave the EU. That statement from the Guardian makes no sense at all

Cameron and Osbourn, dedicated to keeping their wealth, positions and pension pots, have recruited the money men, bankers and business owners to the remain campaign. So Corbyn is siding with those with vested interests in seeing the money markets remaining stable for their own personal greed. ie: bosses and the wealthy. What a strange alliance.

Bosses are loving low labour costs. Workers take a pittance whilst bosses save money and get bigger profits for themselves. What a disastrous political combination that is. We'll have another sort of fantasy island if we remain...it may resemble Victorian England and we'll need more workhouses and soup kitchens as our hospitals and schools overflow and people are forced in to houses of multiple occupancy. Still, as long as the wealthy aren't hurt, who cares?

I'll take Boris the Buffoon and Gove with their passion for the future of this country over Cameron and Corbyn with their agendas any day of the week.

We have to live here. Thinking about what is right for this island and what OUR priorities are means far more to me than how the Euro fares and what Angela Merkel wants.

day6 what makes you think that the neo- liberal agenda so beloved by Gove and Johnson will be any different to the neo-liberal agenda beloved by Cameron and Osborne.

Day6,

So who do you think will be leader of the Conservatives if the country votes Leave? I'd put money on Cameron not lasting long. Of course it makes sense!

Petra do you speak for all Exiters? That they are concerned about the careers of Indians, Africans, Jamaicans etc and that is why you want to leave the EU?
(Bit confused because most of the ones I have spoken to seem to be straightforward send-all-the-foreigners-home racists)
I particularly liked the chap who said he thought he'd vote Leave, to keep the illegal immigrants out

You must mix with some strange people who are inclined towards leaving the EU, JessM - most of the ones I have spoken to seem to be straightforward send-all-the-foreigners-home racists.

Most of the Brexiters I've met aren't particularly concerned about immigration, there are far more important considerations in the forefront of their minds.

Petra speaks for hard working people, Jess.
Obviously those who want to remain are not hard working.

Such as, Ana?

In 2015, there were more immigrants to the UK from non-EU countries than EU countries.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/february2016#net-migration-to-the-uk

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/19/boris-johnson-wins-most-offensive-erdogan-poem-competition

Anyone still think Boris should become PM after Dodgy Dave?
Very diplomatic, this. Come to think of it, Dodgy Dave could deport Boris on an international arrest warrant if Erdogan wants to prosecute him for it.