The one indisputable FACT in this referendum debate

They just are Felice ( here and Germany in particular) They know the wages are much better, that the welfare programme is good and they can learn English, these are often people from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, and our standard if living is wonderful compared to theirs.Then, you have the fact that Spain/Italy/Greece have problems with employment, so they come here too.

Is that a guarantee rose, you know for a FACT that other EU countries will act that way, and what may I ask happens after 2 years, facts only of course.

I don't see what the problem is felice when there may be just as much movement by others in the other direction. The truth of the matter is that nobody knows exactly what will happen. No doubt that if we do come out the British will manage as successfully as they always have done, we have the experience of governing after all!

We need immigration but not uncontrolled immigration.....doesn't sound like much to ask!

No felice not a guarantee [ as we are only dealing facts] but from what I have heard and read and from what sounds likely.What would be the point of throwing people out of a job here or abroad if they are doing it well?In fact, for the 2 years more people from EU countries would no doubt still be coming here.
Some people seem to think that countries/governments would act like spiteful children if we leave.Why would they? It will all be about economics.

I am not against immigration but surely it is not unreasonable to expect that those immigrants bring with them skills that benefit the UK, be they doctors, nurses, plumbers or whatever. What we should be able to limit are those who are coming with no skills who will then be in competition with our own unskilled unemployed.

Not so sure, I was talkng to a young man in my bank last week and he said they are concerned what might happen to the property market here if the UK leaves.
A young woman from N.I. I was speaking to on Sunday who had been offered a 3 year contract here has had it cut to one year, until her employers find out what is going to happen.
I have not asked what will happen to my invalidity benefit, as I do not want to draw attention to myself.

The main problem with the immigration would appear to be that people feel the EU immigrants are coming to just claim benefits. So maybe the way to decrease the migration from the EU is to make the UK less of a beacon to these people. Today the EU finally passed the law or directive that benefits will no longer be paid to dependants not living in UK.
Also one of the measures which Cameron did get from the EU in his talks last Feb was that no one can take from the UK system until they have contributed to the system for four years.
These two measures are likely to decrease the migration once the message gets through.
Digby Jones was on the Daily Politics complaining that it takes him too long to get Visas for engineers he wishes to bring over from India - in some cases he cannot get them at all. That is controlled migration and will continue whichever way we vote. Perhaps he should advertise for EU engineers to work for him and then he would not have a problem - maybe the salary he pays has something to do with it - that question was not addressed at all.

Certainly compared to here the benefits system in the UK for some people seems very generous.
Here you need a certain number of points to claim dole, I had been here 15 years when I had to stop work and still did not have enough. I had worked on UK contracts and although paid taxes and social fund here they did not count.
I had to claim Social Security which is very strict, an amount paid each month and thats it, no extras, and, you have to attend the office every month with your full bank statements proving you have paid all your essential bills or your money is stopped and you have to re-apply.

Son, returning to the UK after years abroadtried to return with his wife of 20 years.
He had his new job but was forced, at the same time to find housing, furniture, school uniforms etc for his children
His wife was given a few days notice (5) to help sort all this out and then returned at their expense to her country of origin
Lawyers had to be briefed to support their case which meant he had to spend the money they had saved for a house deposit.
An additional 'proof' was to produce photos over the past 15 years to show they were a family and NOT work related.... difficult as they had set up their own firm.
We just don't do photos Does this mean we don't exist?
Can trace my family back here hundreds of years as can my husband Find it difficult to believe that a Romanian criminal should have far more rights than my family. Second son has dropped his idea of returning as he fears his wife and family would suffer too

Felice those in the Calais Jungle are illegals, we are (as I am sure you must know) talking about uncontrolled EU migrants.

I am so sorry to hear that, I am actually afraid of what would happen to me if I was forced to return to the UK, so are some of my friends.
I have literally no where to go my DD is here with her family.
After listening to Farages comment to the retired man living abroad yesterday when he asked about his pension I became even more worried.
'Who cares' says a lot about the caring side of the brexit campaign.

Welshwife the majority of EU' migrants are looking for work. I think we can say that is a fact ...wheread your statement about the majority of people thinking they come to seek benefits IS NOT, it is an assumption.

It really is hard to stick to facts isn't it?

i firmly believe EU migrants pay more in than they take out, and this seems to support my belief: fullfact.org/immigration/do-eu-immigrants-contribute-134-every-1-they-receive/

Anya yes I am well aware that most EU migrants enter the UK to find work and pay into the system BUT every Brexit person I have spoken to believes that they ONLY enter UK to take benefits ---- FACT!!!!!

This reason may well be erroneous but it does not stop people believing it unfortunately.

Here in Southern Cyprus, which incidentally is in the EU, there is no social security unless you have a minimum of two years contribution, and it lasts for 6 months only. Everyone pays for healthcare, 3 Euros to see Dr, and a prescription charge for every drug, pensioners and children included. If you do not speak Cypriot Greek it is next to impossible to get employment, unless you are happy to do a very low paid job (usually less than 400 Euros a month) Child benefit is paid for school terms only, and has to be claimed every year. So why does UK have such a lax system? Immigrants from any country have a very hard time here and many go home as this part of the EU is not a land of milk and honey. ( although we do have extremely delicious local honey!!)

It would appear that the army chiefs are very concerned about losing control of our army when the EU forms it's own army
The Admirals are very concerned too, about the Royal Navy, so I understand.

Pippa,

The British system is about to change. Most EU migrants won't get child benefits or child tax credits until they've lived here for four years. This was one of the issues Cameron 'won' in he pre-referendum talks and the European Court has just ruled that the curb is legal. Other benefits have already been restricted. There is very little evidence that EU migrants come to the UK for benefits. The overwhelming majority come for work. Moreover, they are relatively young and therefore fit, so are only light users of the NHS, which they pay for through taxes and NI, just like everybody else.

There is absolutely no reason why the UK couldn't have the same system as Cyprus. The EU doesn't tell countries how to set up their benefit systems.

The problem is that UK benefits are means-tested rather than depending on contributions or (up to now) residency. If the UK were to pay contributory benefits (with a safety net for those who have never paid contributions), the problem wouldn't arise. However, it would initially cost more and people wouldn't be able to use 'shirker' rhetoric, because people would have paid for their benefits.

Anyone worried about the airforce?

@widgeon

Your predicament has been caused by the UK, not the EU.

If BREXIT politicians are serious about bringing immigration to below 100,000, your son and daughter-in-law would be in the same predicament, because there are currently more than 100,000 non-EU immigrants. There will still need to cuts in the numbers and some kind of rationing (points system?) imposed.

^ It had tried to join this single market without success over a number of years.^
This is another thing that worries me - it was De Gaulle who constantly blocked our entry (as we had not bothered to join in the early years, despite it being Sir Winston Churchill's vision).
One person having so much power, deals done behind closed doors. Juncker and the other Commissioners etc. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose
(cannot do the accents on here but you get the gist I hope).

Why do Brits think everyone is making a beeline for their shores, do you think other countries have no immigration problems.
Yes, we see it on the news, countries trying to erect fences, barbed wire etc - horrifying - but it does make one wonder if the whole concept of the EU and free borders is becoming shakier and shakier and is about to all disintegrate as an ideal that can never be achieved.

The main problem with the immigration would appear to be that people feel the EU immigrants are coming to just claim benefits.
I don't think anyone on here or other threads has said that - is that an opinion in the country as a whole? I haven't heard it said. We know that the farmers around here depend on immigrant labour otherwise the crops would rot.

Digby Jones was on the Daily Politics complaining that it takes him too long to get Visas for engineers he wishes to bring over from India I don't know what kind of engineers he is seeking and why he wants to bring them from India when I know extremely highly qualified engineers who are unable to find work in the UK. Engineering is a multi-faceted discipline.

Son, returning to the UK after years abroad tried to return with his wife of 20 years
widgeon I don't know if your DIL is a Commonwealth citizen but this is just the kind of example I mean in my post above.
That has resulted in Commonwealth countries tightening up their rules for spouses being able to remain in, say, Australia or NZ. DD even had to provide details of how the domestic chores were divided when applying for a visa to stay over there. And she is the higher earner of the two.

Anyone worried about the airforce?
is there a problem with the Royal Air Force?

or was that just a comment because the Army and Royal Navy were mentioned?

FYI my view was not obtained from the newspapers but from the horse's mouth.

You must now some very narrow-minded Brexiters, Welshwife!