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As well as all the grief for Jo can we also have some for Ellie

(55 Posts)
jinglbellsfrocks Wed 22-Jun-16 09:13:43

story here

Taken away from the excellent and loving care of her grandparents and made to live again with her cruel parents. Just because some bloody judge deemed it to be the right thing to happen, against the advice of social workers and others.

Grandad said on the radio this morning that when the grandmother asked Ellie how long she wanted to stay living with them, she replied. "millions and millions and millions of years". The grandad told the judge she was likely to have the little girl's blood on her hands before too long. But the judge didn't listen, and so she died a cruel violent death.

CelticRose Wed 22-Jun-16 09:23:38

Again, I was saddened and tearful listening to yet more of the short life of this helpless child on R4 this morning. I wonder if the "Justices" had ever even met and spoken with this little girl, but merely accepted the recommendations of the social service workers. Hold any enquiry requested, can you just see the finger moving around the dial and eventually ending at 0.

whitewave Wed 22-Jun-16 09:29:03

Jo Cox and Ellie on same thread seems more than appropriate seems absolutely right. Mrs Cox fought for children all over the world.

Alea Wed 22-Jun-16 09:30:11

I may be accused of burying my head in the sand but I CANNOT listen to the indescribable details of this case. The father got off" first time "on a legality? Is that right? I despair of the apparent victory of "legality " over sense and compassion and think not only the judge but all of the father/mother's legal team have the burden of blame. Truly sickening.

grannyactivist Wed 22-Jun-16 09:32:07

jingl it's heartbreaking.

I watched the video of Ellie's grandfather describing his relationship with her and actually sobbed. The private social workers (even though I have real concerns about their supervision and accountability) do seem to have had their hands tied by the judge's directions. The judge chose to ride roughshod over the concerns of the social services dept. and then refused to co-operate with the inquiry - I believe she should be professionally censured and that at the very least she should issue a personal apology to Ellie's grandfather.

Anniebach Wed 22-Jun-16 09:44:59

The judge has retired , she ordered social services, police etc to keep out of the family's life,

Lazigirl Wed 22-Jun-16 10:06:56

This is absolutely heartbreaking. I cannot understand why a judge and judiciary can opt out of a serious case review. Where is the transparency? Why was the child's voice and wishes apparently not taken into consideration, as required under Children Act? I do not know what part private SWs played, but I am concerned that they do not have to comply with the inspection and legislation that applies to LA social workers. Each time a child dies the cry goes up that it must not happen again - but sadly it does.

POGS Wed 22-Jun-16 10:35:08

It is truly heart breaking.

I thought the sentences were too lenient, especially the wicked mother. They were both evil, conniving monsters and as is always the case one wonders what the truth would be about the things they got up to that we will never know about.

I feel so upset for the grandparents who loved her so much.

Anniebach Wed 22-Jun-16 10:43:17

Perhaps the parents had mental health problems !

kittylester Wed 22-Jun-16 10:44:34

I can't cope with the details of 'Ellie's' story either. I always find it hard but I have a much loved DGD with the same name and just can't imagine the differences in their two little lives. sad

whitewave Wed 22-Jun-16 10:46:59

The judge refused to listen to the experts

Greyduster Wed 22-Jun-16 10:50:35

Listening to the grandfather on the radio this morning broke my heart. This is not the first case where it appears that some members of the judiciary appear to exist in a bubble, lacking all necessary compassion, wisdom and understanding. I hope, now that the grandfather's words to the effect that she would 'have blood on her hands' have come to pass, that she will feel some remorse, but I doubt it.

POGS Wed 22-Jun-16 10:58:16


Was your post a serious question?

Do you believe they both 'may' have mental health issues?

rosesarered Wed 22-Jun-16 11:00:05

no POGS I doubt it was a serious question, more an attempt at heavy handed sarcasm.

rosesarered Wed 22-Jun-16 11:02:00

a heart breaking case.The parents were plausible and manipulative people, the father was angry and controlling it seems.

Anniebach Wed 22-Jun-16 11:16:32

Rosesarered, please find the good manners not to speak for me ,

POGS, I don't know but it is possible, this doesn't excuse their brutality but red rage is a mental disorder as is a need to control , a person who is controlled can lose all sense of self, this is a fact, I have met women so controlled they are unable to make a normal day decision . Children have to be protected from such homes

Anya Wed 22-Jun-16 12:12:38

Yes, I read about this case and it's absolutely tragic. Judges are human too and can make mistakes and I expect she is suffering at this news too.

Devorgilla Wed 22-Jun-16 12:22:19

I find all of these cases quite horrific. It is a real dilemma for the family courts and social workers. If you take the child away where do you place them? If you leave the child you are condemned for getting it wrong. If you take the child away from parents about whom an original mistake about abuse was proved false you are accused of interfering. Personally I would always err on the side of caution but the decision doesn't rest with me. Perhaps in all these cases when a child is brought to the attention of hospitals, doctors, teachers etc for even the most minor bruising after a court case it should be automatically followed up and the parents put on watch. You could also have the courts insist that the grandparents, if involved and caring, should have automatic legal rights to the child even to removing the child to a safe place if they think the child is still being abused.
But you are right Jinglbellsfrocks, we should pause and give due thought to the death of such a lovely child.

Luckygirl Wed 22-Jun-16 12:26:19

I understand that the court ordered SSD to remove their incriminating papers from the file; so even an accurate record went.

It is a very serious miscarriage of justice and I hope that there will be a full enquiry. I have huge sympathy for the grandparents whose views were so badly overridden.

Anniebach Wed 22-Jun-16 12:28:23

The little mites school were not allowed to voice concerns because of the judges ruling

mischief Wed 22-Jun-16 13:07:27

OMG I've just listened to Jeremy Vine on Radio2 and I'm in bits. They had the grandfather of little Ellie telling his story and I think that judge should be disbarred. Apparently her father was a convicted criminal and had been arrested for GBH and had beaten up previous girl friends etc., etc. It's such a heartbreaking tragedy. Why did the judge dismiss all the evidence against Ellie's father? I just don't understand it. If you are in any doubt as to the conviction - listen to this on Iplayer. Sorry, I'm so emotional thinking of what that innocent child went through.

trisher Wed 22-Jun-16 13:25:32

How sad and heartbreaking. The UK signed up to the UN convention on Children's Rights and the judge should have been aware of this. this says
Right to be heard (article 12): every child has the right to express their views, feelings and wishes in all matters affecting them, and to have their views considered and taken seriously. This principle recognises children as actors in their own lives and applies at all times, throughout a child’s life. This means that when adults make decisions about a child’s life, the child should be asked what they think and feel and adult’s decision needs to take these into account. The Convention recognises that the level of a child’s participation in decisions must be appropriate to the child’s age and maturity.
It sounds as if Ellie knew quite well what she wanted. There should be some sort of action taken against this judge.

jinglbellsfrocks Wed 22-Jun-16 13:34:35

Agree with that post.

jinglbellsfrocks Wed 22-Jun-16 13:35:59

"Judges are human too and can make mistakes and I expect she is suffering at this news too."

I bloody hope she is.

jinglbellsfrocks Wed 22-Jun-16 13:37:02

Perhas enough to actually apologise? Although that, of course, won't give the little girl the rest of her life back.