Has it occurred to anyone that we were all played

Wright Stuff this morning were talking about how the nazis used referendums to pursue their own policies. The problem really was the two terms that were used to describe the opposing sides. Those suffering under this government were faced with- Remain-which implies satisfaction with the current government and society: and Leave- which seems to provide some sort of change. The matter was aggravated because the main voice of Remain was Cameron.
And now we are supposed to pull together and make the country as good as it can be. When the people who voted for change realise that things are going to get worse not better for them I fear they will look for other means to express their rage.

True, they have been playing games. Boris Johnson doesn't care one way or the other about the UK, he wants Cameron's job. He didn't expect to win, told lies, claimed all experts were scaremongering. Now Cameron is making him make the Article 50 decision, & quite right too.

I think I must be like a lot of other people who are happy (for the want of better word) with this present government but unhappy about other things such as they way we are told to spend our money, and they way we do our business.

I wanted change. I wanted us to have a voice again which I fear we are slowly losing bit by bit as we sell out our identity, our rights.

I want more money to be spent on health and education. I realise this goverment had a monumental task ahead of it after Labour had decimated our economy, but I feel that membership of the EU is slowly choking our rights.

Not everyone wants to live or work abroad. Some of us want to stay here. I don't want to be told that products have to have their names changed. It makes me feel that we do not matter.

It seems to me that membership of the EU is based on a pecking order when in fact it all should be equal, after all our money is equal, isn't it?

Cameron actually came back with a big concession over the payment of benefits to immigrants. It's now been admitted that any idea that immigration would be limited was a lie misunderstanding anyway.

How much of that do you think you're going to get, Nonnie?

I honestly have no idea but I listened to what they all said and made my decision based on all the lies told. I was misled, but lied to by both sides.

The depressing thing is the number of people who say they voted Leave as a protest and to "Show the Government" Protest votes are what you use in a by election when you're mad at your MP because he hasn't solved the problem with your neighbours.. You don't use it for something that will affect the long term future of the country.

yggdrasil - I think your post makes this difficult decision sound like a political point-scoring game - it is a good deal more important than that.

I Agree Nonnie and I think they ought to apologise and drop the referendum - they don't have to act it.
If they can't/won't do that they ought at least to apologise for playing with our futures for personal ambition.

It was fought because UKIP came first in our elections just 2 yeas ago and put the wind up Cameron. And he made a long string of completely stupid, weak decisions. And then Boris Johnson piled in and became a clone of Farage with better slogans.
Oh and there was a nasty lying set of newspapers that fanned the fears of immigration and peddled an endless stream of misinformation about the EU.
There were plenty of experts outside the world of politics who said clearly that it would be a bad idea to vote Leave.

Was anything said about that front page article showing the Queen asking why we should be in the EU? I was shocked to see it but went away the next day so don't know if anything was said about it? The press have been so one sided throughout the campaign: if only the Independent hadn't gone online.

No PRINTMISS, because to listen to all the grumblings you mention and listen to the arguments on all sides, weigh them up and put in checks and balances for a fair outcome is democracy.

An IN or OUT question on a rainy Thursday in June is NOT democracy.

An oxymoron is a figure of speech that juxtaposes elements that appear to be contradictory.

I,ve got 2 pc 1 with google search and 1 with Gransnet.

I'm not thick because I voted to remain.

It must be that I'm just too old.

What infuriates me is that the country's future has been damaged (forever, I suspect) due to the ambitions of two politicians.

Cameron's, for agreeing to the referendum to appease the right wing of his own party, and Johnson's because he has always longed to become the PM. Cameron then bailed out, washing his hands of the mess he created, and Johnson seems to realise that the Leave vote was a pyrrhic victory as far as Britain's future is concerned. Still, he's going to be the next PM, so what the hell?

Yes, of course we were played. Aren't we always? But if more people had listened to the warnings, instead of sneering as if it was a crime to be "an expert", we might not be in this horrible situation.

Did you see that Brexit man on Newsnight. Swastika on his arm, ENGLAND tattooed on his neck. He wanted to start sending the immigrants home straight away. His face was red with the effort of holding in his anger.
No wonder the immigrants fear for their life and their businesses. If it continues like this I will never go back again.
The whole atmosphere is spoilt now, and the EU would be better without the UK. They are waiting till Clause 50 has been invoked and then the door will bang shut!

To be fair, Margaret, we're not all like that (nor are there any 'no go' areas).

This is what happend when you leave politics to the cronies of the Bullingdon club.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/09/21/bullingdon-club-five-things-we-know_n_8169064.html

Thanks for the link, Nellie. I didn't know David Dimbleby was in the Bullingdon club but it does explain quite a lot about the BBC's supposedly neutral political stance.

Having just seen the headlines in most newspapers (all positive stuff) does anyone agree that the newspapers should not have encouraged people to vote one way or another for an issue so important (and irreversible). I know we have a free press but it is a free press that prints lies.

"I wanted us to have a voice again"

We had a voice, now we don't.

"I want more money to be spent on health and education"

You can whistle for that. They're a bunch of right wing fanatics, if any money goes anywhere it'll go on tax cuts for the Tories.

"It seems to me that membership of the EU is based on a pecking order"

We were at the top of the pecking order, that's how we got all the concessions and opt-outs.

Our votes are our voice.

money- you could be right there, I dont know. I hope not.

Top of a pecking order of something that a person does not want to be in, is of no use at all.

I agree, Tegan, that the press should have had to assume a neutral stance. It shouldn't have been impossible. After all, the BBC has to make some attempt at balance and impartiality, and the press could have made an attempt to do the same.

Never going to happen, of course, whilst people like Murdoch own huge chunks of the media. The campaign mounted by The Sun served his interests, not the nation's, as the EU didn't cower before him the way Downing Street does. He more or less said so himself! I don't read the Telegraph but sometimes find myself tempted to look at the Mail online, though I always wish I hadn't. It isn't good for the blood pressure.

It is difficult to know what we could ever do about press bias - not just in the run up to an election or referendum but all the time. Freedom of the press is considered to be very important in a democracy.

Although we don't have paid for political ads like they do in America, commercial TV channels can still promote a political agenda - like the Channel 5 program about a Romanian immigrant claiming benefits in Britain to build a house in Romania - this programme was broadcast at a time when it could help whip up anti-immigrant feelings and provoke people to vote Leave.

The BBC is regulated and is supposed to be even handed but this meant that for every bit of factual information from the Remain camp, they had to spend as much time broadcasting lies from Farage et al. No distinction was made between fact and opinion. It was as if an "expert" telling us that the earth is round always had to be balanced by equal time and respect for a flat-earth theorist. We were not well served by the media.

Could have told you from very beginning that NHS would get nothing that would make any difference to getting more doctors and more nurses. And NHS is staffed by doctors, nurses etc from EU and worldwide countries - so what if many of them leave? Be hardly anyone left!
Also the £350 million pounds for the NHS was emblazoned on the leave bus - if that was a product in a shop which said it did something it didn't, you would get your money back!

Time one of the editors was charged with inciting racial hatred and sent to prison for a wee while perhaps.
When out campaigning several people said to me "all politicians lie". I think after this campaign the numbers that are convinced of this has increased. There was a Guardian article on the way that Gove and Johnson have brought their irresponsible and unethical practices from journalism into politics.
Not sure that Johnson is lined up to be next PM as there are a lot of Tories that were in favour of Remain or who are not worried about their investments, pensions, etc. It will be interesting to watch.