A new Centre party?

In less than 48 hours 141,000+ people have signed up to wanting truthful politics and having an Office of Electoral Integrity .

Thanks- and I've signed too btw.

It is massively important for the future of politics, that prospective candidates do not get away with making promises which they have no intention whatsoever to keep.

Part of the problem is that the press complaints huge flavoured compromise body is a toothless compromise.

Not quite the same because what you are often dealing with is opinion. There can be no agreement what the facts of a case are

Is the glass half full or half empty? That is a serious question. What is the factual truthful answer? 'Both' is not an acceptable answer, or is it?

So therefore you do not bother trying to get honest politics? Just accept the status quo, which is people lying to us all the time?
Fortunately over 141,000 people, including some politicians, do not agree with you.

143,000 now.

I see that at the Corbyn press conference today the signboards said "Standing up, not standing by". No mention of standing down, alas.

I signed the petition when it first started because I like the idea of a 'truth watchdog'.

From my own point of view, I don't really want a new centrist party because I think we have two right now - the Lib Dems and the Parliamentary Labour Party and that's the problem. The Labour Party Jeremy Corbyn inherited needs to take a step to the left and that's what he's trying to achieve, but is facing internal barriers from his own Parliamentary colleagues. Will the Labour Party split in two? Not half, but two? Could some Labour MPs join with the Lib Dems and fight to stay in the EU? That's a very attractive proposition and could help put the brakes on the rise of the right wing. At this stage it's about the EU and that's a big enough cause for parties like the Lib Dems and Labour to come together. Policies will emerge as we go down the road of deciding what our relationship with the EU will look like. Compromise is the name of the game now.

All I want is the Labour Party to move back to its left wing roots. Trouble is the Parliamentary Party are fighting that tooth and nail because it believes it will make them unelectable. I understand this, but I believe it should be working hard to demonstrate why left wing politics is not a bad thing.

Labour is still unelectable and until something major happens, we're in the doldrums.

145,000 signatures now.

Corbyn is one of the most honest politicians in parliament. That's why he's not standing down. He's standing up for the membership who voted for him.

As a matter of interest, what do those wanting the Labour Party to return to left-wing roots want?

One of the problems I have (and I'm sure this is down to poor media reporting) is that I'm not sure what the Labour Party stands for any more.

The Labour Party website is awful. I've just been on it and it doesn't tell me anything about Labour policy for the economy, jobs, schools, health, benefits and pensions, etc. There's loads about diversity (which is good), but that's not what the 'ordinary' person worried about unemployment, education, the NHS, pensions (the everyday stuff of life) wants to know.

Meanwhile, Osborne and the Conservatives are stealing the agenda on a very important initiative, the regeneration of the North. This is going to be even more critical after BREXIT and the loss of EU funding. There's actually quite a lot of discussion going on, but it's rarely reported in the national media. If it's successful, it will be a game changer. Labour and politicians of any party need to start taking the initiative, because people happier with their lives are less likely to vote for right wink parties in protest. JMHO

And there is a sneaky tendency of Tory politicians to say things like "we're the party of hard working families" when they are really the party of the rich and priveliedged. May, yesterday was making similar noises. I don't believe a word, but as we are aware, lots of people are convinced by soundbites and lies during election/referendum campaigns.

I don't believe a word of it either. She also wants to abolish the UK's involvement with the ECHR, cut police numbers and increase surveillance.

Unfortunately, I think she's the best of a bad bunch.

Thatcher knew that appealing to 'hard-working families' was the key to success and Blair took over that mantle.

I believe what we now have are many hard-working families, who aren't seeing a reward and are being encouraged to find scapegoats (benefit scroungers, immigrants, teenage mothers, the obese, you name it...) other than the politicians who promised them just rewards and had their own agenda all the time.

And of course once you lose your job....

...you become a 'non person'.

Neither party would get elected if millions of ordinary people in ordinary jobs in ordinary places did not vote for them.

It would be a good idea if they both remembered this. The referendum took place because Cameron called it to placate right-wing Conservatives and look what damage that is likely to do to the economy.Already there is serious talk of interest rates being cut, more borrowing and probably even more welfare cuts. The current internecine strife in the labour party is alienating every voter who isn't already committed to the party

The problem with the Tory Party making people believe it represents hard working families, is that it continues to perpetuate the belief you are worth less if you are not hard working. It's a twist on one of the basic principles of Conservative beliefs - help people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. The trouble is, for many reasons not everyone can be hardworking and so a division is created.

Also, what people conveniently forget is that millions of hard working families are on tax credits and Child Benefit and both are part of the Welfare State. But when the Welfare State is mentioned, many people think of claimants on benefit and not themselves on tax credits or Child Benefit. Both are managed by the tax office, not the DWP, so it's easy to think of them as different from benefits. So the illusion is created that the vast majority of money that makes up the Welfare State budget is paid to those on benefit. Now a further division has evolved, further marginalising those less fortunate.

When times get hard, this belief gets stronger and results in a lost of empathy for the less fortunate. The truth is, at the end of the day tax credits are just a glorified enhancement of the old Family Income Supplement (FIS), paid to low paid working families (many worked for the government!). The irony is tax credits were introduced by the Labour Party.

To answer dd's question, what I want the Labour Party to do is to work hard to break down the us and them divisions between the working class. To fight the unspoken belief nurtured by Margaret Thatcher that it's not my problem to care about those less fortunate than me, and start making people realise that having a social conscience is a positive attribute in our society. To develop policies that actually really do enable us to all be in this together, to quote another Tory fallacy.

How is this done? I have no idea, but it could start by dispelling some of the myths and hammering home some facts about how people's incomes are made up and that wages are propped up by tax credits. For example, take a look at how the Benefits and Tax Credits budget is made up right now and then consider who in our society has been the hardest hit by the government's austerity measures and the changes to benefits introduced by IDS.

Great post Wilma

And which are being perpetuated by Stephen Crabb, Wilma.

He's not made many headlines yet dj, but I can't believe he's standing for the leadership. He not only voted against same sex marriage, but started his career as an intern for Christian Action Research and Education (CARE), a charity which promotes the idea that people who are gay or bisexual can be 'cured'. As an MP he has employed interns from that same organisation, but unlike other MPs who have distanced themselves from CARE, Crabb has never spoken publicly about CARE and there's no mention of it on his website. I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.

@ Wilma

I'm with you on the barricades on that one, Wilma. I explained a few weeks ago way I voted Labour in the election. One way or other I've really been through the mill over the last five years and I discovered a whole new world of benefits, work programmes and being looked down on. I'm not 'hard left'. I don't believe in bringing down the capitalist state and I don't resent 'elites' if they've earned their money and/or position themselves and pay their contribution (taxes) to society. I don't have a problem with a market economy and believe the UK is rich enough to provide safety nets for people, whether on a permanent basis (because they are disabled) or a temporary basis (because they are ill or unemployed, etc). I'm a passionate believer in building council houses and redistributing wealth from the South to the North and regions. I believe schools should provide a dceent start in life for everybody, including those who aren't naturally gifted.

If any party can deliver on the above, they've got my vote. I really don't care about 'isms' and divisions in parties. My problem with Corbyn and Momentum is that their battle cries don't seem to translate into practical policies.

Your last point is an important on daphnedill. There has to be a way forward that creates the right balance between policies on private and public sectors and neither the snuggling up to commerce, nor the left-wing ideology of the past will work. The challenge for the Labour Party is to negotiate a way forward that can work successfully with the private sector (which ultimately pays the bills for everything) while protecting public services, the NHS, a welfare safety net and the rights of workers. No small ask. But it is no use being entranced by the wonder of the business world. I have seen many examples over the years of politicians deluding themselves that a manager or private sponsor from the private sector will put things right in the public sector. Usually this proves to be a disappointment. But that does not mean there is nothing that the public sector can learn from the private sector.

I think we're going to see a major re-alignment of parties and party loyalties over the next few years. I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know how it will work out. There is a chasm in the centre ground. I suspect most people want the same things - somewhere reasonable to live, fair rewards for working, feeling safe when they walk around, schools and a health service fit for purpose, etc.

Like you, I feel a mixed economy works best. Markets usually find the right level, but when they fail (as they are in housing) the government must step in to rebalance the situation. I believe it's obscene that individuals are making vast profits from health and education, which should be a basic right in a first world economy. I would, for example, love to see a national audit of education spending and see how much is being spent on consultancy, outsourcing of functions such as payroll and HR, CEO's salaries. This is all money which could pay for smaller classes and teaching equipment.

I would also like to know how much in total is being spent on G4S, Serco, Capita and the various work programme providers and to compare what they provide with 10 or 15 years ago. I don't believe for one moment that the mantra 'private is best' is true.

I feel that we're trapped between two ideologies. Personally, I prefer pragmatic solutions. If there's a problem, it needs sorting. Societies need to provide red lines, but if the solution involves bringing in private providers or adapting public services and/or the law, that's fine. I would like to see every citizen having a basic understanding of macro economics, so that they understand that a national budget is not like a household one.

Include Osborne in that, daphne.
I see he has done what Corbyn suggested Cameron ask him to do in Wednesday's PMQs and scrap the budget surplus plan for 2020.
I have a feeling he will not be chancellor then anyway.

I thought I'd already written too much, dj, so I didn't include him.

He should have scrapped his targets years ago.

Labour needs to hammer some positive messages home. The people who matter just don't seem to get it.

I really fear for the North East. Ukip has it in the cross hairs and Labour needs to offer a practical alternative to austerity and realistic challenge to what's happening.

Millions in being spent on the Northern Powerhouse project, for which Osborne is taking the credit. People need to get stuck in there and fight for what they want and need, rather than protesting against the establishment. JMHO

PS. Osborne is a rubbish economist but a good strategist - he'll take the credit for anything which works.