Could Labour 'split'. Tom Watson calls off talks.

For what it's worth, I too admire you for your comments ab. It takes courage to post as you have, and I too am watching in disbelief at the way the Labour party is apparently tearing itself to bits. We need an effective opposition, as a one party free for all is not good news either for a country or democracy.

Thank you Niggle. It's what I see as true just as I did when I supported him. I want a labour government who will change lives for the vulnerable. This can not be done from the opposition benches , I want a leader who puts the party first not self .

Although I have not voted Labour for a very long time, I welcomed Jeremy Corbyn's election as I thought he seemed to have the ability to inspire a lot of people and would move the centre of gravity of British politics to the left.

I am sorry to say that I, like so many others, have been very disapointed. He has let down the Labour party and the country and I can imagine how hard it is for you Annie and other lifelong Labour supporters to admit that he is not the leader you hoped for.

I'm sorry, but I cannot feel inspired either by Angela Eagle or Owen Smith (who I'd not even heard of until last week). What happened to Yvette Cooper, Liz Kendal, Andy Burnham et al who were contenders for the leadership only last year? I can't say I was very impressed with any of them (too Blairite) but what is going on? Who would you chose as party leader Annie?

varian, I am unsure who I would choose. Andy decided before Corbyn was elected to stand for Mayor of Manchester - if I have the wrong city someone will say. We will not win the next election so can only hope we will have a leader who will take us forward, he/she will have a battle but Kinnock did it . I know little of Owen Smith but wonder why he is standing, he will split the anti Corbyn vote and so help Corbyn back in. I like Angela, she can't win against May who will win over centre voters. If a man had become leader Angela stood a better chance . I have gone on rather about the wilderness years but I truly believe Corbyn is taking us back there. I think many are supporting him because they hate Blair and see this as some strange revenge . I wish they would be honest with themselves and ask can we win a general election with
Corbyn and MacDonald as leaders , we can not. I do admire Angela for putting the party before her career , take guts

Durhamjen 07.44

Sorry to upset you but no I am not the one ' spoiling for a fight ' as you put it.

Once again I have to remind you my post was a 'general' question ' to a wide audience, not addressed to you in person.

Now you have raised my posts , do you have a view on John McDonnells behaviour?

As far as the NEC ballot goes I would consider a secret ballot to be essential if the people voting were only presenting their own views, but a great many of those sitting on the NEC are there as representatives of their union members or other bodies and it is only fair that the people they represent know how they have voted, It is one of the few cases I can think of where a secret ballot should not be used.

Trisher, you must be aware of the real fear which is gripping the party . Have you not read the vile stuff on twitter . All we hear now is if any MP doesn't support Corbyn they will be deselected. Women MP's are being threatened with rape ,I have never known fear in the party and I find it distressing, you seem not to be concerned sorry.

Do you really think Corbyn can win an election and become PM? Do you think MacDonald a good man?

trisher, Johanna Baxter said in the BBC link I posted up thread that she was going to tell those she represented what her vote was. She just didn't want Corbyn to know during the actual meeting. Seems others felt the same as he was asked to leave the room while the vote took place (presumably the vote about whether he should be required to have 50 supporting MPs like other candidates or whether, as current party leader, his name should be included on the ballot automatically). At first he refused.

Why would people not want him to know how they were voting unless they felt intimidated, or potentially intimidated, by his team or his other supporters?

Here's the link again. World at One yesterday.

Still upsets me, to hear her distress, that he listened to colleagues asking him to support a secret ballot because they were frightened yet he ignored them, yet he speaks out against bullying. I am even more angry now when I think of his speech as he lay flowers for Jo Cox .

So many ways being promoted to vote in the election.

Is the Labour Contest now looking corrupt?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-leadership-contest-vote-jeremy-corbyn-new-members-momentum-vote-avoid-paying-25-fee-a7133851.html

Just as well to now refer to the party as the Momentum Party , they are running it.

Heard last night Corbyn will not take part in the hustings for party leader, his name is on the ballot paper so he has chosen not to,

The party wants a secret ballot for MP's to vote for either Eagle or Smith to stand against the corrupt leader , expect they will have to run this past Momentum

If Labour doesn't get its act together very soon I'm going to cancel my membership and wait for a political party that can provide the UK with an alternative opposition to the Tories, that is both credible and effective

No whitewave don't do that. The Labour Party needs its members now, more than ever. Only problem is, there is no good choice for a new leader, none that inspire. Who wants to vote for the 'best of a bad bunch'?

I can perfectly understand good potential leaders not stepping forward at the moment. Perhaps biding their time until there is a more united party to lead, but in truth this is just the time when someone strong and charismatic needs to step into the ring and take a chance.

Every move the party makes to get back on track Corbyn brings in lawyers , if they took this route it could take longer than the time for the next general election . Which we can't win with him as leader

Anya, better to vote for the best of who ever stands to free the party from the talons on Corbyn and MacDonald

That's very true Anya and I can't think of a better time to do it either,so what is holding anybody back?It can only be that Labour feels it has to field a person who is well to the left of the Party in order to get the votes.So, the 'best' person to be leader has no chance of getting on the ballot paper ( if they are centrist/right) so this time round, it will have to be Eagle or Smith.

Has anyone considered that the threats, text messages and other unacceptable behaviour may not in fact be people who are Labour supporters but those who want to see the party split and people reacting exactly the way some people are behaving. People could ask for a secret ballot possibly because it gives them an opportunity to appear intimidated or because they intended to vote in a way that would not suit their members I really don't know, nor I think does anyone else. Doesn't it seem strange that someone who has been described as ineffectual and uninspiring has now morphed into a scarey, intimidating terror who has to be asked to leave the room while a vote takes place. What has he got deadly x-ray eyes or something? I'm starting to find the whole thing a bit of a joke. Like something written by Charlie Brooker.

trisher..... A conspiracy theory too far!

It's not him, it's team Corbyn and their rabble rousing friends that is doing the intimidating ( while he whistles and looks the other way.)

Trisher are you claiming Corbyn was forced to threaten the NEC with legal action?
Or the NEC are a secret society out to destroy the Labour Party?

So why was he asked to leave the room? If he isn't doing anything the only reason for asking I can think of is that it makes him appear threatening. I can accept others may be intimidating but they weren't the ones asked to leave.

I'm saying the NEC should be a transparent body whose members openly disclose their votes for the people they represent.

Perhaps he (or his close aides) does appear threatening to some NEC members, trisher. I certainly got the impression from Baxter that this is the case. Without being on the 'inside', there's no way of knowing really, but I don't think such a request would have been made without some justification.

Yes, I agree that NEC member should openly disclose their votes on the exec to the people they represent. They don't represent Corbyn.