Beginning to distrust Jeremy Corbyn

I didn't see the tv programme but I heard the relevant bit on the radio news. I was surprised that Jeremy c was so vehement in saying is/Daesh wouldn't be round the table. Maybe he meant there would be diplomacy and discreet, I'd not made public, talks with Daesh or their representatives. That's what happened with the IRA and USA, their were talks between their representatives and the government to lay some foundations for peace talks.
I loathe the idea of negotiating with Daesh because their barbarism seems to know no bounds. Their aims of a calephate have no comparison with the wish for a united Ireland's, or opposition to that. Much as a loathe acts of violence and oppression, I could empathise with both sides, if not the way the went about their battle.

Daesh is totally alien to me and to western culture (forgive sweeping generalisation). The notion that throwing gay men off roofs, making women cover themselves head to foot, banning music etc are beyond my understanding or empathy. I do see though that most conflicts in the end have to be resolved around a table. i don't believe we're anywhere close to anything like that. Daesh remind me of the Nazis, there are some individuals and groups with whom it's unwise and dangerous to negotiate.

After the 2015 election results I doubt many have faith in polls . Conservatives were 1 ahead of labour then, and we have nearly four years before the next election

Smith is no different to Corbyn who had talks with Hamas and who entertained the IRA shortly after they attempted to kill the uk government . The surprise for me was it wasn't Corbyn who said it

skwalker1964.wordpress.com/2016/08/18/as-corbyns-labour-closes-to-5-points-has-establishment-shot-itself-in-foot/

What does anyone think of Smith saying that the government would have to get round the table with ISIS?

Daphne, I thought if fair the views of Jews were expressed. You know the opinions of many British Jews? Sorry but you do not, you are putting the opinions of your daughter and some one who is a Jew.

I will put forward the views of a Jew too

" I thought Jeremy was a decent man, but he is a devious man "

The Board of Deputies of British Jews does not reflect the views of all Jews in the UK any more than Momentum reflects the views of all people who have voted Labour.

I'm not going to get embroiled in some wrangle, because I don't have evidence to hand. However, what I do know is that many British Jews are fed up with the overbearing attitude of their so-called self-appointed leaders. There is apparently a group of people who consider themselves as spokespeople, but many Jews feel that they don't speak for them.

Iam64 I thought somebody said that you are a member of the Labour Party - I don't know if that's correct or not. I too receive Momentum e-mails but I am not a member of Momentum. At the bottom of the e-mail is a statement "you have signed up to keep in touch with Momentum or the Jeremy Corbyn leadership campaign". There follows a highlighted blue link which you can click on if you wish to unsubscribe.

I think there is a difference between receiving e-mails from an organisation made up of individuals supporting Corbyn, and in which you have expressed an interest,and councillors sending unsolicited e-mails to Conservatives, Lib Dems and anyone else whose e-mail addresses they have access to in their capacity as councillors, with the sole purpose of urging them to join the Labour Party so as to vote to oppose Corbyn. They did not send the e-mails in their personal capacity or as members (as two of them are) of Progress but in their capacity as councillors - I think that is an abuse of their position.

I think it fair an opinion of Jews be brought into this ?

The .community Security Trust which monitors anti - semitism in this country said the elevation of Shami to the lords was a shameless kick in the teeth, for all who put hope in her now wholly compromised inquiry into labour anti semitism .

The Vice President of The Board of Deputies of British Jews called it whitewash for peerage scandal.,

Yes, POGS, it is the media and the whole PR and propaganda machine - the Daily Mail isn't the only culprit of bias.

I'm not going to discuss this any further until I've had an opportunity to discuss with people who were actually involved.

It is NOT 'The Media' though is it!

The facts are exactly what they are, facts. There are so many links, personal comments from the likes of Corbyn and Mc Donnell, Labour MP's that substantiate the fact Labour had to deal with the question of anti semitism.

With respect it wasn't the Daily Mail who instigated an Inquiry by Baroness Royall into the Labour Oxford Union , it wasn't the Telegraph who instigated the Shami Chakrobati Inquiry , it was Corbyn/Labour Party.

POGS,

All I can say is that my daughter knows some of the people who were actually involved. She's not here at the moment, so I can't ask her for details, but I will.

My daughter is not a Corbyn supporter, although she is a Labour member, so I trust her opinion. I don't think she would defend Corbyn or Momentum without justification. I've known the young Jewish man, who was personally involved, for many years and I trust him too.

Whatever happened, it wasn't quite what the media would have you believe.

I was one who didn't accept there was any truth in it and did believe people were confusing anger for the Israeli treatment of the people in Pakistan , I am angry about it but not anti Semitic . I am struggling at the moment , nothing seems as it was, or as I thought it was , didn't even know untill this week Margaret Hodge was an immigrant and her family had been in Auschwitcz , I knew about her political career . I just feel there is such A change in the party I no longer recognise it, this I find both distressing and frightening,

When I was young, we used to call the municipal buses the 'corpie buses' (ie corporation). It wasn't until I moved to North Essex that I realised that there are some places which are totally inaccessible by public transport. A number of further cuts have been announced. Some villages had a once a day or twice a week service, but these are being cut, so people will have to have a car or rely on expensive taxi services.

I'm a huge believer in adult education and I agree with you that it would be a good investment. The UK used to have a strong tradition in 'night school'. My ex-husband's family were miners, but many of them studied for years at night school and became mining engineers, etc. One of my great grandfathers studied for a science degree as an external student. It used to be possible to study electrician and plumbing courses at night school, but no longer.

These days, very few people will have a job for life and it's more important than ever that people are flexible, but they need the opportunity to retrain or update their skills. In my opinion, such courses could be funded by scrapping the 'work programme', which provides low quality training and appears to be designed to fill the coffers of sham training providers, costs billions and seems more of a punishment regime for those unfortunate enough to lose their job.

If Corbyn and his supporters have really grasped the situation, I could still be tempted .

Re Oxford University Labour Club.

This matter has been spoken of many times on GN on one thread or another. It most certainly was not 'a put up job' and the more times I read that phrase used as a way of trying to deflect from the truth the more it becomes obvious that some people will not accept Labour has accepted there was a problem that needed addressing.

Anybody who has followed this problem will know at the beginning of the year Labour was concerned over the problems at OULC and instigated an Inquiry concerning the Oxford University Labour Club which was duly carried out by Labours Baronness Jan Royall. Then came a further Inquiry into anti semitism by Shami Chakrobati which we all have our own thoughts on.

Jan Royall has cleared the Oxford University Labour Club of 'institutionalised' anti semitism but I believe the full Inquiry Report has never been published publically at the request of the NEC but that point requires clarification!!. There are however a few articles on the matter the following being just one.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/18/labour-antisemitism-party-jewish-chakrabarti

Yes, daphne, Corbyn's education plans would cost, but I do not know anyone who would object to paying taxes for education.

My dad used to be a driver for municipal buses. Didn't earn a lot and had to pay superannuation towards his pension. Had a good union then, before they were privatised.
The idea of bringing them back into public ownership is so that areas that miss out can have bus services back.
Bus service subsidies are being cut in most local authority areas, which will mean fewer services from the autumn.

It is sad Iam, so very sad

I had no knowledge of municipal buses so wouldn't comment, judt thought it was of the same interest as privatising railways

I think you're right to say daphnedill that there is a deal of disagreement within the Jewish community, as there is in the rest of Labour leaning people.
I can't pretend to know enough to understand the complexity of it but I do feel sad that long standing labour supporting members of any community can feel so alienated by the current labour leadership.
It's an absolute B isn't it.

That's interesting about the Oxford students, Iam64, because I heard something quite different. My daughter has friends at Oxford, including one who is Jewish and belongs to the Labour group. His view was the same as has been reported in some of the media, namely that it was a 'put up job' and involved infighting between different factions. I can't remember all the details and names at the moment, but they can be Googled.

It would appear that there is a great deal of disagreement within various Jewish communities, mainly centred on Israel's treatment of Palestine. It would appear that some UK Jewish leaders are against Corbyn, because he is sympathetic to Palestine. However, there are also Jews who are critical of Israel and still support Corbyn (or, at least, aren't against him). Sorry, I don't know more. This was based on a snatched conversation with my daughter on one of her flying visits.

Municipal buses sound great to me. In many rural areas there aren't any. We do have buses, but it's sometimes really difficult to find out when they run, because there isn't a centralised timetable.

dj, Corbyn's education plans would cost, but as part of a co-ordinated plan, I think they could be justified, especially adult education (anybody remember night school?), which seems to have more or less disappeared.

Well Annie we can all remember the days when municipal buses were the norm, and they still are in London I believe? (Transport for London is not privatised is it?)
There was a recent case in N Wales when a bus company went bust and closed without warning, leaving some people stranded and unable to get to work. Last I heard the more lucrative routes had been taken over by another company but there were a few areas left without a service.
As a result of the Thatcher and Blair years we are habituated to all kinds of things being privatised that are still in public ownership in other countries. Even in capitalistic USA. I was in Seattle a few years ago and was surprised to note that ferry services were all publicly owned as were all the "off licences". Supermarkets not allowed to sell any alcohol - a State monopoly.

This thread is mirroring the negative, nasty, name calling that is going on within the Labour party.
My own views are clear and don't need spelling out again.
So far as the Lambeth councillors go Eloethan, I can't see the difference between what they're doing at Momentum. I've had endless emails from Momentum. I may be taking a very simplistic view here. I've had a particularly trying few weeks, today being no different (not politics by the way)

I expect to be criticised for this comment, but here it goes. I spent a few hours this morning with a good friend/former colleague who is Jewish and an active member of our Jewish community. The friend is a former Labour councillor. My friend talked about the large Jewish community in our area, none of them can bring themselves to vote Labour with Corbyn as leader so they feel totally disenfranchised, having long tradition of voting Labour. There are strong links with young people who were part of the Jewish Oxford students on the receiving end of anti semitism. I am fully aware that Corbyn supporters take a different view and will (probably) keep of this discussion from now.

Renationalisation of the railways would happen as the present contracts came to an end, so would not cost.
The NHS would be financed by getting rid of the purchaser/provider split, which costs a lot, and getting rid of private healthcare companies involvement in the NHS.