Traingate

Gets madder by the minute!! Quite baffling!!

whitewave - yes indeed.

I am utterly despairing for the homeless, the many living in poverty, so much suffering and it will get worse , I am not ashamed of the Labour Party, I am sickened by the wolves in sheep clothing who are determined to destroy the party and by the voters who would rather the one party which was born to help the poorest is destroyed than face the facts , the Labour Party is being destroyed by communists

There was a post last night which was offered as balance , 1,000 signatures praising a man who will destroy the lives of thousands . Balance ? Wonder how many are from momentum

The principles. Think of the principles! It doesnt matter that they cant be enacted, as long as they are spoken about!

Mind you, I think I can be guilty of that as much as the next person.

Showing the truth and exposing fake means "undermine our democracy" to Mr McDonnell

Yet in another context 'showing the truth' was called Project Fear' and no-one seemed to think that a vote based on lies undermined democracy in the slightest. In fact it was claimed as a victory for democracy.

We are masters at applying double standards....

Obieone the Labour Party was formed by people of principle, it is being destroyed by people who have no principles

A lot of people didnt think it was the truth MaizieD. Big difference.

And my personal gransnet mantra of two wrongs dont make a right speech.

Showing the truth and exposing fake means "undermine our democracy" to Mr McDonnell

still stands

I think I would have to disagree with you there Ab. I think for instance that JC has principles. But is unwilling to compromise them? At all? As seen by him and his second wife splitting up over his sons education.
So his and others principles trump the bigger picture, sometimes or often to the detriment of others, many others.

Nero

Annie I know you are angry with the way the Labour Party is going and with many of us on the left that do not share your views. But to be honest, what I am still angry and ashamed about is that it was the Labour Party, headed by a megalomaniac, that took us into an illegal war causing the deaths of thousands of people and suffering and horror that still goes on and on today. That can never (to me) be forgotten despite any good things the Blair government achieved.

Whatever is happening now is, in my opinion, a reaction to that legacy and the direction politics in general has taken since then. Yes it's not pretty, but maybe, just maybe something good will eventually come from the mould being broken. I for one am hopeful, and that's not because I see Jeremy Corbyn as a Messiah but possibly as a catalyst for change.

The Iraq war cannot be forgotten but it cannot be undone , all this rubbish about Corbyn is really revenge on Blair and tough luck on those who are suffering now and will continue to suffer because some .

Obieone, Judas had principles

It's far more than ab's views though, isn't it? I think many more people in RL would agree with her on this matter, than would agree with you nightowl from all I have seen and read.

The Corbyn groupies and the Militants don't live in the real world , and those who speak of Corbyns principles are no different. Curl up in their sofas ,listening to the rise in the homeless and children in poverty and all they can say is - Blairs fault not mine.

Wrong, it will be the fault of you Nightowl, Jen and others who are more concerned with revenge and/ or defending a man who is more concerned with sodding trains and buses than with those sleeping on the streets.

McDonald's latest great announcement - when we are in power we will take Bransons knighthood from him. That will feed and house people.

A lot of people didnt think it was the truth MaizieD. Big difference

Oh, so if it's a lie that most people believe in it's a perfectly sound basis for democracy?

A lot of people didnt think it was the truth MaizieD.

Feels like we are going around in a circle, so I am out of here on this one MaizieD

Actually, your post of 9.53am doesnt make sense to me, but never mind, I am still out of here on this.

So, obieone, you are quite happy with the fact that 'democracy' can be claimed if enough people believe in the lie on which they have made a significant decision?

Yet Corbyn and his team apparently telling a minor porkie (and I'm not convinced by either side at the moment) is rocking the foundations of the democratic process because it apparently shows up insuperable moral failings in the Opposition leader?

Principle at stake here?

Or do we run our government on the 'Thou shalt not be found out' model?

Very few of your posts make any sense to me, obieone but I do try...

Minor porkie? No a blatant lie and someone who can lie so easily can lie about much

Unfortunately the Labour Party has become more about Corbyn than about its underlying principles.
When its leader embarks upon a series of silly stunts and becomes a laughing stock then it is in danger of no longer being an effective party in British Politics. After all these years this is a very sad and worrying situation.

When the Dear Leader becomes the major focus then it is more a cult than a political party.

True Jalima , and now the Labour Party cannot be an effective opposition party .

America has the Trump cult and we have the Corbyn cult

This is what Angers Fogh Rasmussen, Secretary General of NATO 2009-2014 thinks of JC.
He accused JC of abandoning the principles of solidarity, collectivism and internationalism and, accused him of having " betraying the fundamental principles upon which the Labour Party usually worked"

So true Petra , he has betrayed

bladeofgrassuk.wordpress.com/2016/08/27/luke-akehurst-from-labour-first-claims-to-have-already-fixed-the-labour-annual-conference/

This should please you all.